How to build a billion-dollar sports team

Note: Transcripts are automatically generated from episode audio, and are not fully corrected for spelling, grammar, and formatting.

JESS SMITH: The WNBA is 31 years old, right? So it’s taken a lot of ups and downs to get it here. But what you’re seeing that’s different is investment. When so many people are asking, “Why is it working?” you have to have capital. You can think you’re going to do great things, and if you don’t have capital, you’re going to miss the mark.

JEFF BERMAN: When you showed up on day one, what did you do?

SMITH: Panicked. I’m the momentum. I have to figure this out and direct us where to go in a year and a half until we tip off. The most fun part of that equation is the generational fandom here in the Bay Area. I have two young girls — they’re 5 and 7 — and they will know nothing different than a Chase Center that’s packed for the Warriors and packed for the Valkyries.

BERMAN: Hey, folks, Jeff Berman here. Before we dive into today’s episode, I’m talking with a very special guest, my friend Jamie Battmer, chief investment officer of Creative Planning, one of the largest independent wealth management firms in the country, a sponsor of Masters of Scale, and a truly exceptional company. Jamie, welcome to Masters of Scale.

JAMIE BATTMER: Hey, thank you so much for having me.

BERMAN: Jamie, when someone’s evaluating who to work with to help them not just make investment decisions, but manage their family finances, what are the keys to figuring out who the right partner is?

BATTMER: It’s like oars in a canoe, right? If someone’s working with a CPA somewhere, an investment team somewhere, and an estate attorney somewhere else, they’re not rowing against each other, but they’re definitely not rowing in unison. You want to go as fast as you possibly can. Really, that’s it. Optimize all those dynamics. The genesis of Creative Planning was bringing it all under one roof. That’s the story of Creative Planning.

BERMAN: At Masters of Scale, we have conversations with a lot of founders who feel wealthy when their company’s valuation takes off. On so many levels, it feels like security, but when we look at it from a step back, it’s also risk, right? There are massive tax implications when you IPO or get acquired.

BATTMER: They’ve been focused on that, right? Just grinding every day, making their business better. People think, “OK, this liquidity event is here. I’m about to have this windfall. Let’s get on it.” No. These are things you fortify years in advance. The longer runway you have, the more you put the odds in your favor. The data says you don’t try to outsmart it — you try to optimally own it, right? It’s through these tax dynamics, the estate dynamics. That’s what we’re hyperfocused on. On average, one year later, an IPO is down 31%. Think about that. Think if Wall Street hung up a sign that said, “This investment, on average, will lose a third of its value one year from now.” These IPOs are typically exit points, not entry points. So the idea is getting ahead of that and putting the odds in your favor. Fortify all those things on the front end. There’s never an end to the line. You never set it and forget it. That’s the type of people you want to work with. It has to be living and breathing on your behalf.

BERMAN: Jamie, thank you so much for joining us. And now, on to the show.

I’ve been looking forward to this conversation for a while. We have a very special guest on Masters of Scale today, Jess Smith, who runs the Golden State Valkyries, the fastest-growing sports franchise in America, going from a $50 million expansion fee to a $1 billion valuation in about two and a half years. Absolutely extraordinary growth in a category that’s exploding as well. Jess, welcome to Masters of Scale.

SMITH: Thank you. It’s an honor to be here and talk about this.

Copy LinkLessons from Angel City FC

BERMAN: I’m so happy to have you here. You and I first met at Angel City, where I was a season one ticket holder. My oldest, who is not a sports fan, won’t go to anything except an Angel City game—

SMITH: I love that.

BERMAN: Because he loves the energy of it. What did you learn at Angel City that you’re now carrying forward in your new role?

SMITH: That whole opportunity to be a part of that organization taught me everything, truly. I take the 15 years before that happened in the sports industry, in a variety of different leagues, learning how Major League Soccer operated differently than the National Hockey League and differently than Major League Baseball. By the time I joined Julie Uhrman, Kara Nortman, and Natalie Portman at Angel City, there were five of us in our homes, on our laptops, in the pandemic, saying, “We’re going to build the most powerful women’s sports team in the world.” And that was really what we set out to do.

First of all, we were really curious. I think when you go into a brand-new product, sports or not, you have to understand the landscape and understand who you’re going to be. We did a really good job of defining who we were going to be and what we were going to do from day one. You’re building something for an audience that’s been untapped, and when you can tap into them and build them an elite product they’ve been waiting for, they show up and help build that atmosphere. They have to show up and be loud and invest in the product to make it operate. That’s part of the science and really what goes on behind the scenes.

When I first got to Angel City and was thinking, “How are we going to fill this venue?” one of the main questions I had was, “What is the actual crossover between the men’s and women’s teams that are sharing venues, whether that’s shared ownership or not?” And what I found through a very exclusive study — which was me calling people — was that there was really no more than 10% crossover.

So that was an immediate light bulb for us. You should be building for the 90 and then inviting the 10 to be a part of that, of course. There’s a lot that goes into it, but I think knowing your audience and building that product for them is the most important thing.

Copy LinkHow the Valkyries built a distinct brand

BERMAN: What are you looking for in terms of the markers that show the brand is landing, and how are you adjusting as you go to build that deep brand connection?

SMITH: For the Valkyries, to be honest, it landed right away.

And I think some of that is the power of the WNBA, even as we were coming into it, right? The first expansion team since 2008, the Bay Area, which has its own energy. This is where people look to see what comes next, right? What we saw right away was merchandise sales.

And mind you, we had no players. We launched our brand a year before. We actually launched on opening day of the WNBA season in 2024, a year before we would take the court, and we sold merchandise in 60 days in 70 countries and all 50 states.

BERMAN: Why did the brand land so well with people?

SMITH: It was its own.

It was powerful. It was representative of the Bay, but of something bigger than that. We wanted, very aggressively, to be like, when you saw the color, you thought of us. It’s our job to build out what that means, but what that colorway was going to be was really, really important. When we saw this Valkyries violet, we knew it was ours, right? It was something that could be used from a lifestyle perspective, but it was powerful.

BERMAN: The one true category-leading brand where I’ve worked is the NFL, and that is a big category leader. I’ve spent most of my career working with insurgent or challenger brands. You were in Major League Baseball, you were in the NHL, you were in the MLS. They all are kind of category leaders. When you jumped over to Angel City and then to the W, what changed for you in terms of how you had to think about what you were doing, because you were at least more of a challenger brand than you’d been before?

SMITH: I think if you look at my resume in the most respectful way, I was also at challenger brands within those leagues.

BERMAN: Yes.

SMITH: And I think, in hindsight, that served me so well from an experience standpoint. I had to work to educate and be a part of making these brands mean something more than simply the top team in the top media market, and I love that. Very candidly, for me and my personal background, I come from being the first person in my family to graduate from college. My mom had me young, and I credit that with getting access to sports early. I played basketball, softball and some other sports, but basketball was my favorite, and it taught me a lot. As I had a chance to move into working in women’s sports with the investors who wanted to make it great, I was able to take that traditional sports experience and also my lived experience and not lose sight of why we’re doing it. I think when you’re building a powerful brand like Angel City, like the Golden State Valkyries, and knowing what you’re going after, you can’t ignore the fact that the communities you’re representing are still underserved. And I think there are ways to build with mission and capital coexisting, and that’s what’s made those two products really powerful: They’re doing both.

They’re unapologetic about being great, and they’re not going to stop. But the why, and the opportunity for engagement and visibility and actual societal impact, also exists.

BERMAN: You’re talking about a community that’s underserved. How do you define that community?

SMITH: One, fandom, right? Being a women’s sports fan has been really difficult. When we were building the Valkyries, so many people came up to me and said, “Please make it cool.” Right? “I want the club experience. I want to eat sushi at a basketball game and drink champagne.” I’m like, “We’ve got you.” Secondly, you can’t ignore that the communities represented through our athletes have been underserved, specifically in the WNBA. When you look across these incredible athletes and their platforms, and who they represent, it’s important that we have those conversations and also talk about accessibility, right? Women still don’t have the same access to sport as men. That’s just a fact. That’s OK for us to say and OK for us to engage with, and know things like 94% of women in the C-suite have had access to sport. So how do we change that? It’s pretty simple. We’re a sports team. We get a chance to work with our partners and community to provide more access to sport, and there are a lot of things like that we get a chance to do.

Copy LinkHow investment in women’s sports turned momentum into a flywheel

BERMAN: There’s historically been this boom-bust cycle in women’s sports, right? You have a Women’s World Cup happen, the viewership is off the charts, to your point, and then there’s a drop-off because you haven’t had the sustained flywheel where brands are investing because the dollars are there. The media companies are investing more, not only in the rights but in the promotion. When that happens, there’s more money, for example, for revenue sharing for players, which can incentivize more people. There’s a flywheel that happens. It looks like we are breaking, or we have broken, that negative cycle, and we’re in the positive cycle, and it will sustain. Am I right? Is that the right way to think about this?

SMITH: Absolutely. I still think there are a lot of young leagues emerging, which is great, right? We’ve got two volleyball leagues. We’ve got professional baseball. So I think we also have to remember there are a lot of brand-new leagues, and it’s going to take them some time to mature. The WNBA is 31 years old, right? So it’s taken a lot of ups and downs to get it here. But what you’re seeing that’s different, to your point, and what we can’t ignore, is investment. When so many people are asking, “Why is it working?” to me, it’s three-pronged, but the first is investment. You have to have capital. You can think you’re going to do great things, you can have all these great ideas, and if you don’t have capital to actually build that out in the simplest of forms, like hiring staff and good people to run your product, then you’re going to miss the mark. The second is people. I look back, even from my own consumer mind, at the pandemic. That was such a shift in how we’re seeing fandom and the responsibility of fandom in women’s sports happen. The Wubble happened, and all of a sudden, people were watching, and people are talking about these incredible viewership metrics, and merchandise sales are going up. Then all of a sudden, you’re getting better windows and better production and more visibility, and your algorithms on your phones are changing, and people really understood their power in that equation. And the third is media. I think we can’t ignore that media continues to be one of the most prominent ways that women’s sports are put in the right places to gain consumers, right? Whether you’re looking at these college basketball numbers over the last number of years, let’s not forget it wasn’t even allowed to be called March Madness at one point.

BERMAN: Right.

SMITH: And now you can go to one network and find the games, and look what’s happening, and then those viewers are following these athletes into the W. That’s huge. It seems really simple. It’s not, right? There’s only so many windows on these networks, but as the product continues to prove its power, that’s going to continue to increase like never before. But it’s not just basketball, right? Women’s softball ratings are unbelievable, right? There’s so much potential out there for that flywheel, to your point, to continue, and it’s not going anywhere. I think the most fun part of that equation to think about, though, is the generational fandom.

Here in the Bay Area, I have two young girls. They’re 5 and 7, and they will know nothing different than a Chase Center that’s packed for the Warriors and packed for the Valkyries. And that mindset of young girls and boys idolizing these athletes, seeing Veronica Burton and Steph Curry as the same, that’s really where this takes real shape. And so as we follow their fan journey in the next 10-plus years, it’s going to be really, really cool.

BERMAN: A former boss of mine was very fond of saying it’s easier to catch a wave than create a wave. In your last gig at Angel City and here with the Valkyries, it feels like you’re doing both. How do you think about that?

SMITH: I think about it every day.

BERMAN: Yeah.

SMITH: All day. It’s exhausting and wonderful at the same time, because it matters, right? I think for us, we knew even being this expansion team, the first expansion team since 2008, there was a weight to this. Us getting this right showcased what was possible and dictated what investment was going to come next. So we are always thinking about that. Our success matters much differently than just, we want to be the best at everything that we want to do. And by the way, we do. But two, not to overthink that it should be fun. I think one of the things people miss in these conversations, or miss in the everyday that I get to do, is how do we have fun with this? For instance, the mascot, because Violet does a ton for us. Number one, she’s so cool. She’s our bestie, as you know. Being able to bring her out into the community and have her showcased as a part of our brand in so many different spaces that otherwise we wouldn’t be invited into is such an advantage.

BERMAN: What went into framing Violet’s personality, and what’s really working there?

SMITH: You know, you’re in Ballhalla. You definitely feel like you’re in another universe, right? And so she’s an added element. Why wouldn’t there be a violet raven running around that we call our best friend? The raven is a big part of the Norse mythology. The ability to make her violet in color and in name, we call her Vi sometimes, too, is an opportunity to continue to define our brand. When you see her, you see her. She’s bright and energetic. What are the things that ravens love to do? Well, they love shiny things. They’re songbirds. They love music. So her entire personality is really a tribute to the prowess of a raven as well. So, of course, she’s a great dancer. She can throw it down with the best of them. But those moments of defining who she is help reinforce our brand and give us another layer to that line of Norse mythology that we like to toe.

Copy LinkBuilding the Valkyries from scratch

BERMAN: You were employee one at the Valkyries?

SMITH: Yeah. Yes.

BERMAN: So you’re doing a start-up inside a legacy institution, a fairly young one relative to the leagues that we think about maybe more popularly in America, but it’s still an interesting dynamic. When you showed up on day one, what did you do?

SMITH: Panicked. No, I mean, after going through a start-up with Angel City, for those who have done it, it’s relatable, and you sit there and you realize when you talk about momentum, oh, that’s me. I’m the momentum. I have to figure this out and direct us where to go in a year and a half until we tip off, to build this team to the potential that I knew it could be built to. You are building the plane as you’re flying it, as they say, and that is so true, right? So you start doing all the jobs, but you’re also hiring into the jobs that you need. What’s been great about building at Golden State is some of the advantages that we’ve had are, one, we are Golden State. There is a reputation that they’ve worked really hard to build. There are facilities that they’ve worked really hard to build. So within those very first weeks, we were making commitments to renovate our practice facility, build a locker room inside Chase Center, and having Golden State and the power of Golden State say yes to those things and help me with those things was definitely a game changer, and one I don’t take for granted or, candidly, take much credit for. They had infrastructure to help me. The most important things are getting that set and then building this brand the right way, right? You can’t go to market too soon, even though you’re kind of panicked about the timeline, until you know who you are. And so really putting a bow on who we were going to be, the Valkyries name, the Valkyries branding, the Valkyries launch, how we were going to tell this story, and keeping it a secret, which is really hard to do, having merchandise ready for the moment as well, and getting that right opened the permission for us to have season ticket holders start to engage with us and, very candidly, have brands start to engage with us. Even when I got there, I come from partnerships. It’s my background. I love it. And so many brands were like, “Let’s talk,” and I had to say, “Not yet.”

Because what it meant to be a Valkyries partner wasn’t defined yet.

And so we had to really figure that out and be really confident in that before we went to market, because you can only go to market once. So if you go to market too quickly, and you don’t know what you’re asking for, it ends up being more harmful than helpful.

BERMAN: We love all of our guests equally at Masters of Scale, obviously, because they’re all absolutely amazing, but occasionally, I personally have a holy balls, I can’t believe I get to do this for a living, oh my goodness moment. I had one of those recently with Jim Collins. He’s the foundation of my business education because, as someone who did 10 years in public service before I went to the private sector, with no formal business training whatsoever, I had to teach myself. One of the things that Jim talks about on our recent episode and in his new book is what he calls who luck.

JIM COLLINS: It’s the luck of people who cross paths with you, and they play a huge role in your life. My guidance to folks is you’ve got to find ways to just increase the chances that you’re going to have a marvelous conversation or bump into somebody or be curious about something.

BERMAN: One of the best things about Masters of Scale Summit is it’s full of who luck. It is an extraordinary cross-section of businesspeople, technologists, investors, academics, authors, and artists. It just goes on and on. So if you want to increase your who luck, if you want to potentially change the trajectory of the rest of your life, join us. Visit mastersofscale.com/summit. Partnerships is so much more art than science.

How did you land on what that go-to-market looked like for your partnership strategy?

SMITH: It really went back to when we’re building the Valkyries: Who are we, and what are we doing, and how do partnerships fit into that? So when we talk about mission and capital coexisting, one, the knowledge that, yeah, we’re going to have a full arena, and the media’s going to be great, and we’re going to hire into the right roles so the social media and everything that you’re looking for for metrics is going to exist. But why would you do this partnership, and how are you going to reach our fans on a deeper level? That caliber of intent is what we had to define. And so where we landed was, for all of our founding-level partners, there was going to be an impact council. Right now, we have nine founding partners that sit around the table together. We’ve got Sephora, JPMorgan Chase, Kaiser Permanente, Olly Vitamins, Rakuten, et cetera, and they’re not just investing with us. They are having unique programs in the community that are driving outcomes. But also, we’re going to start talking a little bit more about what we’re going to do as a group, because it’s not done yet. It’s not seen yet. I think in partnership, you have the opportunity to say honestly that the exciting part about being our partner is that the trajectory of women’s sports and women’s sports fandom is just getting started. So how are we actually navigating this together with deep impact for your brand and your outcomes, but also learnings that we can apply directly together?

Copy LinkBalancing player power, brand, and community

BERMAN: There’s a tension when you’re building a mass brand to having your stars engaged in social activism. And there’s a higher level of tension when a brand itself, whether it’s the W or a club, engages in that as well. How do you think about striking that balance in a time where the country feels so divided in so many ways?

SMITH: Our athletes, and every athlete of the WNBA, are their own people and platform. I think that the communities they represent and the attention that they get is warranted because of the ingenuity of how they’re sharing these stories and what it means to them and those around them. I think we’ve had a lot of male athletes do the exact same thing, but I think because they are women, rightfully so, and the communities they represent, there’s a lot more attention to it. So for us, we want every athlete to be themselves and to have platforms to support that. Then as a team, how we’re looking at it is: Who are we as a team, and what are we representing? For us, we want to make sure that we’re providing safe and celebrated spaces for athletes and for our fans. And when you walk into a game at Ballhalla, it’s joyful. That’s our job, to maintain that and to protect that. While they’re two separate things, I think when you look at the convergence of the opportunity for them to come together, there are definitely moments of representation that you can’t find anywhere else. Our Pride game was a great example of that, and none of that was forced. We are a part of the San Francisco Pride weekend, like almost every team here, I believe every team in the Bay Area, and that Friday night we have a game. It’s a celebration. We then win in epic fashion, of course, and the celebration of that win feels deeper and more meaningful because of who’s gathered there and having that moment together.

BERMAN: Going back to my NFL experience, the league looked at it as shield, the league, club, and then player. The reality of where we are in sports right now is, by and large, and the Valkyries and Angel City are both exceptions to this in many ways, it’s really player, club, and then league. We’re in a moment right now where there are so many marketable stars in the league. Both as you’re building the club and as you’re accelerating this wave that’s building, how do you think about player marketing versus club marketing versus league marketing?

SMITH: The players of this league are incredibly powerful and only continuing to rise. I think one of the dominant moments, looking back at the growth that you’re seeing, is that traditional sport fan finding that visibility through college basketball and following these classes of athletes into the WNBA. That is a new fan coming into the WNBA, and they care deeply about those athletes whose jerseys they’ve already worn. And to your point, they might choose their W team based on who that athlete is because they don’t have the legacy fandom of their family saying, “This is our team.” So it’s a really unique point in time where these fan bases are going to grow not just from geography, but simply from the player themselves. What we can control as a team is being who we are, representative of this region, regardless of who’s on our team, and we always need to do that. What’s our culture? What are our values? Who are we going to be? And then, who comes into it with the power that they have? We hope that when they are here, one, that they stay forever because it’s so much fun regardless of the athlete that’s here. But even if they follow an athlete elsewhere, that they remain engaged with us. Even if we’re not their top team because that athlete has decided to move on, they’re still going to follow us on social media, we hope. They’re still going to talk really great about us. They’re going to look back at those retro jerseys that they bought, and they’re going to want that moment or crave that moment again if we’ve done our jobs correctly. And from a league perspective, the opportunity is to harness all of it, to make sure that every media partner understands the power of all of these athletes. You’ve got A’ja Wilson, one of the most dominant athletes of all time.

BERMAN: Generational.

SMITH: Yes, generational in our league, right next to Paige Bueckers, Caitlin Clark. Look at what Olivia Miles is doing this season.

BERMAN: Yeah, insane.

SMITH: Right. These are, there are 20 stories like this. How are you telling them? When do they converge? When do they stand alone? How do they represent diverse fandom throughout our country and internationally? I think it’s going to be really, really fun to follow.

Copy LinkWhat billion-dollar growth teaches any start-up

BERMAN: Going from a $50 million expansion fee to a billion-dollar valuation in about two and a half years is a pretty extraordinary thing. What lessons can you draw from your experience that would be applicable to someone who’s not in sport as they’re trying to go on a similar scale journey?

SMITH: It’s very relatable to the start-up world and funding and what you need. The reality is you have to be really, really specific about who you are and what you’re building, and unapologetic about the outcomes that you’re going to go get.

And you have to get funding to do so. I talked about this a little bit earlier, but why we’ve been successful, the belief that Joe Lacob and Peter Guber have in me and in our entire team is astounding, and they’ve had it from day one. They ask really hard questions and want you to have a stance, but when you believe and know something’s going to work out, they say yes. I think having the right investors is really, really important, and staying true to your core product is really, really important for the opportunity to expand it elsewhere. I think the journey is hiring into revenue, making sure there’s two main things that remain focused on our OKRs every year, and that’s revenue and fans.

BERMAN: But not a ring, a championship.

SMITH: Oh, I mean, no. If you’re asking Joe, that’s it.

BERMAN: OK. Yeah, OK.

SMITH: Yes, 100%.

SMITH: For me, what I can control, which is not signing an athlete myself or playing basketball, no, winning is a part of that.

BERMAN: Yeah.

SMITH: When you’re looking at the behind-the-scenes, I’m building a start-up. Yes, you have to be the best and want to win, but outside of that, we are focused on growing and deepening our audience and driving revenue, which will allow us to grow and deepen our audience.

BERMAN: When you look back on the journey to this point, what’s something that you wish you had a mulligan for? Where do you wish you had a do-over?

SMITH: Oh, wow. I only get one?

BERMAN: You can take as many mulligans as you want.

SMITH: I mean, something I give myself credit for is understanding the power of hiring and staffing into revenue versus needing to accomplish revenue and then hire afterward.

BERMAN: Because it hurts your product.

SMITH: That said, I would’ve done it even quicker in year one. I knew that this was on its way to the continued growth that we’re seeing for the Valkyries, and I think we could’ve met the moment even more deeply if I had been more aggressive on the front end around some of those resources. I should have followed my gut in that moment.

BERMAN: I feel like this is a key to blitzscaling, that when you look back, almost everyone you talk to who’s had a similar kind of rise says, “We could’ve gone even faster.”

SMITH: We could’ve gone faster and bigger.

BERMAN: Yeah.

SMITH: And that’s a great problem to have because the market has continued to reward us for what we’re putting out there, but that’s my responsibility.

BERMAN: One of the unusual things about working in professional sports is you are fiercely competing with the other clubs, and also the overall product rises when you share best practices and everyone is lifting. How do you think about that when a fellow club president calls you up and has a set of questions, and you’re like, “Gosh, I really want to help because I care about the product, but I also don’t want them to beat us at the end of the season”?

SMITH: I don’t think the commercial advantages are going to take away from the on-court competitiveness. My responsibility is to have the best home-court advantage those players have ever seen. That’s what we tell them. And to make sure that the world knows who they are. But from a commercial standpoint, I think one of the fun parts about this moment in time in building in women’s sports, and specifically the WNBA, is everyone cares about growing the WNBA first, and that’s really cool to be a part of. The league’s success is our success, right? That visibility, those opportunities to work with our players in big ways, we need to have a seat at that table and feel really compelled to be a part of something that’s bigger than ourselves. And then you level down a bit, and no matter how good other folks get, we’re going to be competitive and want to be better.

Copy LinkHow the Valkyries think about ticket pricing

BERMAN: One of the other places there’s a really interesting tension for the Valkyries, because you’ve done such an extraordinary job building the brand, building a community presence, and bringing the community into the club, is absolutely obliterating records for season tickets sold and season ticket holders, filling 18,000-plus seats for every game. But you want to be accessible. You want a broad base of people coming to games and experiencing what it means to be at Ballhalla. And the secondary market reflects that you are probably leaving some money on the table, because it’s not cheap to get even a secondary-market ticket to a game. How do you think about ticket pricing? How do you think about community access and accessibility when you also want to make money?

SMITH: Money is important, right? And it’s important to our players in this current construct as well. Making sure that you are pricing fairly for the product on the court is incredibly important. You are reflecting the caliber of what they’re seeing, and so if you’re building an elite product from a game-experience standpoint, obviously these are the best athletes in the world competing, and your venue has to reflect that. You have to be aggressive enough to make sure that’s a reflection of them, right?

I think the accessibility piece comes in two forms. One, of course, is access to tickets. You can find a $15 ticket if you buy early enough to a Valkyries game. Does that mean that at the last minute, before a big matchup when we’re playoff-bound, you’re going to find a $15 ticket? No, but that’s a reflection of the core product. We make sure that we keep tickets aside and donate tickets on behalf of ourselves and on behalf of our partners for every single game.

But I think the most important thing to keep in mind is the ticketed product is just a small part of our business. When you look at the most successful sports brands around the world, they often see 1% of their fans ever go to a game. So how are we building everything else? We launched a bar network this year. We have 40 bars across Northern California committed to playing every single Valkyries game.

BERMAN: Yeah.

SMITH: One, that visibility is important, but two, we’re now supporting small business and allowing our community to gather wherever they want in a way that’s accessible for them.

BERMAN: If you and I are back, hopefully having a follow-up conversation two or three years out, pick your horizon, what does success look like for you, for the Valkyries, and for the W?

SMITH: I smirk because we’re just getting started, right? More expansion is coming. We had Portland and Toronto. We’re going to see Philadelphia, Cleveland, and Detroit come in. Those are major markets and opportunities for more rivals. That’s good for everybody.

Two is visibility, and that’s going to come in two forms. One, this media deal: we’re just getting started. The casual viewer is going to begin flooding into this league through the exposure of the WNBA. The number of times I walk into a sports bar now and you’re hearing every different group of people talk about the W in real time, the scores, the standings, the playoffs. It’s not that often. I don’t get out that much. But when I do, that media deal is clearly going to continue to be transformative, along with the ways we can expand that.

And three, there are actually more games. When you look across the span of the mature sports leagues and think about if any one of them added 15% more games, well, that’s what’s happening in the WNBA, right? So as a team, that’s three more ticketed opportunities for us. That’s three additional on-the-road games and viewership opportunities, for six total games. That’s a big deal, right? So I think those pieces, in a two- or three-year time frame, are going to create a giant opportunity for us to go get it when it comes to fandom, deepening fandom, and driving revenue.

BERMAN: How do you think about sports gambling in this respect? Is that a place you want to lean into to help drive the more casual fan into the W?

SMITH: I think, much like any league, it’s something that you have to get right versus rush into.

BERMAN: Yeah.

SMITH: There are so many different layers and repercussions, and yes, fandom, but also responsibility that comes with that. So my personal take is we shouldn’t be rushing into that. If and as that comes to be in a formal setting, it has to be done right and in a way that preserves what the game is. The game, and the fairness to it and everything around it, is really, really important.

Copy LinkWhy keeping girls in sports still matters

BERMAN: As a student-athlete yourself, you cited that 94% of women in C-suite roles played organized sports, and yet we do see this drop-off that you referenced, particularly in high school.

As girls like my niece, who are super active, pull out, what do you think is happening there? I know you all are invested in helping turn that around. What are some of the keys to bridging that?

SMITH: I mean, one of the very obvious ones is puberty.

And I think so many people aren’t talking about that, but a lot happens to children at that age. Specific to girls, one of the projects we did at Angel City was partner with Nike, and for every seat deposit, we donated a sports bra to a young girl in need. To know that one of the main reasons young girls stop playing sports is they don’t have access to a sports bra is defeating, right?

There are simple fixes like that: making sure we can fund and give access to the equipment that young girls need. Also, how they feel around their coaches during that time, the safety they feel, and having access to the right period products so they don’t feel embarrassed if something happens. There’s a lot that happens in a young woman’s life at that time, let alone any other societal things going on. So we want to be eyes wide open and very well aware of that. In fact, we have a partnership with Cora, which works on feminine products, and it’s not a secret. It’s something that every girl and woman goes through, and how do we make sure that we’re building confident young women at every age, whether they’re playing sports or not, is really important to us.

BERMAN: Jess, before we wrap up, I want to invite a very special guest in. Would that be OK with you?

SMITH: Yeah, let’s do it.

Copy LinkJess Smith takes questions from a fan

BERMAN: OK. So I’m going to introduce the amazing Rosie Berman. She happens to be my niece. We do share a last name. She’s a huge Valkyries fan, and when she found out you and I were in a conversation, she was dying to come in, so I’m going to have her come take my seat and ask you a couple questions.

SMITH: Please. Please do.

BERMAN: OK, awesome. Rosie, come on.

SMITH: Hi, Rosie.

BERMAN: Please take the host chair. Let’s get this set up for you.

SMITH: Ready to go in Ballhalla?

ROSIE BERMAN: Yeah.

SMITH: I love it.

ROSIE BERMAN: I’m starting to play a bunch of sports at the same time. Do you have any advice for me?

SMITH: Well, first, are you having fun?

ROSIE BERMAN: Yeah.

SMITH: That’s the most important part of anything that you do: you really have to like it. In sports, when you really have fun doing it, you’re probably going to play harder, do your best, and find ways to get great outcomes. Even when you don’t, you’re probably going to learn something from it. So honestly, just have fun. Get out there and try your best at everything that you do. Don’t worry about anything else.

ROSIE BERMAN: Yeah. And then my second question is, how many people come to the games usually?

SMITH: Well, we’ve been really fortunate to have the best fans, as you probably know, because it seems like you’ve been there.

ROSIE BERMAN: Yeah.

SMITH: Over 18,000 fans come to Chase Center for every single game. We’ve sold out every game in our history, which is a great testament to the community around us, and you can hear them, right? It’s pretty loud.

ROSIE BERMAN: Yeah.

SMITH: Yeah.

ROSIE BERMAN: And then what’s the process for picking the players on the team?

SMITH: Well, two years ago, we were a brand-new team, an expansion team that came into the WNBA, and we went through an expansion draft, meaning that we got to actually steal a player from other teams. They could protect some, but then we kind of took a look at their roster and said, “I’ll take this one.” Then, from there, we added free agents, so players who weren’t currently on another team or had an option to go elsewhere, or players who weren’t in the WNBA yet. For us, that meant some international players as well. This year, that process was a little different because there were two new expansion teams, and they got to steal players from us. So they took two players from us, and then, same thing, we went to free agency and signed some new players like Gabby Williams and Kiah Stokes, and we were able to put our team together for this year. What do you think about Violet?

ROSIE BERMAN: She’s really cool.

SMITH: Yeah.

ROSIE BERMAN: Yeah.

SMITH: I really like her, too.

ROSIE BERMAN: My first game was on Violet’s birthday, and I got to see her fly.

SMITH: You were there for that?

ROSIE BERMAN: Yeah.

SMITH: Fun fact: that was my birthday, too, so it was a great celebration. I was very nervous about her flying, but she did a great job. That was really cool.

That’s so cool that you got to see that. Thank you for being a part of Ballhalla and our fan group. It means a lot, and I hope you still have tons of fun while you’re playing sports.

ROSIE BERMAN: Yeah.

SMITH: Awesome. It’s good to see you.

BERMAN: Good job, Rosie. Well, as the saying goes, everyone watches women’s sports, and part of the reason for that is what you and Violet and the Valkyries are doing. We’re so grateful for you. Thank you for being on Masters of Scale.

SMITH: Thank you.