The unseen stakes of this World Cup

Note: Transcripts are automatically generated from episode audio, and are not fully corrected for spelling, grammar, and formatting.

JT BATSON: Soccer is the challenger sport in our country, and we are the challenger country in our sport. So many people who grew up in the American soccer ecosystem grew up in a time when our mentality was a little bit like the little engine that could. There’s no reason America can’t be the best soccer country in the world, and for us to win, we have to be able to out-innovate and ultimately outwork together to achieve that. I hope this summer inspires everyone and really galvanizes every community to know they’re going to play a key role in us winning World Cups and making soccer the number one played sport in every community.

BOB SAFIAN: That’s JT Batson, CEO of the US Soccer Federation. As the World Cup kicks off, the stakes for US soccer couldn’t be higher. JT’s organization oversees the men’s national team as well as the women’s national team, and the tournament is a launchpad for growing the sport overall. JT talks to me about the pressure behind the US team’s on-field success, where things stand for Coach Pochettino’s future at the helm, and what’s different from the last time the US hosted the men’s tournament back in 1994. Whether you’ve got Cup fever or not, JT shares timeless insights about using joy, patience, and high expectations to build a connected ladder of success. Let’s get to it. I’m Bob Safian, and this is Rapid Response.

[THEME MUSIC]

I’m Bob Safian. I’m here with JT Batson, CEO of the US Soccer Federation. Thanks for joining us.

BATSON: Thanks for having me.

SAFIAN: The World Cup is here.

BATSON: Yes, it is.

SAFIAN: The first big game is approaching. Are you excited? Are you nervous? Where will you be when Team USA hits the field?

BATSON: Incredibly excited. I will be at the game, of course, at SoFi Stadium on Friday night against Paraguay. It is going to be awesome, and I can’t wait.

SAFIAN: Is this the year? Will the US defy expectations, defy the odds, and win the World Cup here on home turf? Your prediction?

BATSON: Behind me is Central Park, and yesterday, Gov. Kathy Hochul, while announcing that there’s going to be a massive fan fest to watch the World Cup final in Central Park, said the US would be playing in it. I’m going to back the governor and say, why not?

Copy LinkWhat is the US Soccer Federation?

SAFIAN: For those unfamiliar with the federation, it runs the US men’s team and women’s national teams, chooses coaches, raises money. It’s also connected to local soccer activities and to the professional leagues in some ways, too, right? Do I have that right?

BATSON: Absolutely, you do. The simple way I’ve liked to describe it for folks who are newer to US soccer is that we have three parts to our business. One, think about it like a professional sports organization: our pro sports teams, our men’s and women’s national teams. You’ve got very highly paid, very highly successful coaches and players, and everything that comes with that. You’ve got almost like a trade association business, so think of referees, coaching education, health of the ecosystem, safety, all the things you would have around how you grow the soccer market. Then lastly, an impact arm. We believe soccer’s a force for good. How do you get soccer in every community, and how do you have soccer lead to happier, healthier, and more connected people? Those are the three ways to think about what we’re up to at US Soccer.

SAFIAN: They all kind of feed each other, right?

BATSON: They do, for sure.

SAFIAN: The top end inspires the bottom and the middle, and the bottom and the middle are supposed to feed the top.

BATSON: That’s 100% true. We often get asked, “What’s your number one priority?” What we’ve come to embrace is that we have three generational ambitions for US soccer: US soccer success, so of course we want our teams to win World Cups; US soccer everywhere, meaning we want to be the number one played sport in every community; and US soccer is yours, meaning we want everyone who cares about our game to feel connected to it. What we’ve come to embrace is that, for any one of those things to be true, you need all three of them to be true. To win World Cups, we need lots of people playing. To have lots of people playing, they need to be inspired. And of course, people need to feel at home in our game. Those are very much at the heart of everything we do, and we’re excited about this summer as a chance to show that off.

Copy LinkWhat US Soccer controls during the World Cup

SAFIAN: The World Cup itself is FIFA’s tournament, not yours, even though the US, along with Canada and Mexico, is hosting. What does US Soccer control? Is there impact you have on the event itself, or is that up to FIFA?

BATSON: This is the first World Cup where FIFA is fully responsible for the operational delivery of the tournament. I’m sure many of the people who listen to this manage risk at their organization and think about that. For FIFA, the World Cup is the overwhelming percentage of its revenue, and so the idea that it would want to be operationally responsible for it makes sense. That’s allowed us to focus on three main things. You mentioned our team. Of course, we want to make sure our team is in the best position to be successful. Two, we want to make sure every American who wants to be part of this tournament can be part of it. We have lots of ways we’re doing that, from more than 500 Soccer Forward Fests all across the country, so think of those as watch parties plus play-soccer parties. And third, how do we use this World Cup to leave a real legacy around what soccer looks like in this country? The fact that we don’t have to worry about the operations of the tournament means we have a lot more headspace and a lot more time to focus on the things that ultimately matter for us.

SAFIAN: In terms of access and accessibility, the price of the tickets and whatever, which there’s been a lot of blowback about, that’s not on you, right? You’re leaning into these other things like Soccer Forward to make the sport accessible.

BATSON: In 1994, when the men’s World Cup was last here, I grew up in Augusta, Georgia. We didn’t have the ability to go to World Cup games, and I very much felt part of that tournament and fell in love with the World Cup and with our men’s national team. I actually had a chance last week to spend time with the ’94 World Cup team, and I felt like a kid in a candy store. The other thing is, in New York, the Knicks played in the NBA Finals for the first time in forever. I saw people pay a million dollars for two courtside seats. The demand relative to supply for live events has certainly shifted over the years, and you’re seeing big numbers for a lot of high-profile sporting events. Of course, the World Cup is going to be no different.

Copy LinkWhy this World Cup matters differently than 1994

SAFIAN: You mentioned your own experience with the World Cup in 1994, which kind of sparked a wave of popularity for the US overall. When you look at this year’s World Cup, are there lessons you’re applying? Are the goals the same, or have the goals changed that much?

BATSON: We’ve come a long, long way. We had no pro soccer leagues. You could barely watch soccer on television. Today, of course, we’ve got incredible Major League Soccer, NWSL, and USL. We have the ability, as Americans, to watch more soccer on television than anywhere else in the world. Well more than 100 million Americans are fans of soccer in this country, so we are a soccer country. ’94, plus the Atlanta Olympics in ’96 and the Women’s World Cup in ’99, was an incredible five-year run that ushered in a soccer culture in this country. Now we’re in a materially different place, and so our goals can be different. We can dream bigger. We can aim higher. How do we make it so that soccer ultimately is the number one played sport in every community?

SAFIAN: When you talk about the soccer culture in the US, I don’t know whether this is my misimpression, but I kind of feel like it’s historically been almost middle class and above. Around the world, it’s anyone who can get a ball can play, but it hasn’t necessarily been embraced that same way here.

BATSON: America has an incredible sports tradition. We have lots of great sports and lots of opportunities for kids to play those sports. If you go to any playground or public park, or to any school, what’s one thing you almost always see? A basketball hoop. So it is our state and local governments subsidizing basketball accessibility. Of course, I grew up in the South, as you can hear by my accent. High school football and middle school football are ubiquitous and very expensive. That is state and local money subsidizing football. We’ve been subsidizing accessibility in other sports, and I think what we’re starting to see is that when local municipalities, school districts, and nonprofits are intentional about making soccer accessible, soccer thrives.

For the first time in history in the city of LA, soccer is the number one played sport. The city of LA is very diverse, has folks of all backgrounds and all income levels, and the fact that soccer is now the number one played sport is a sign of where the sport is going in this country. Those who grew up with ’94 as a seminal moment for them are now the folks who are in positions of power at corporations, governments, and nonprofits. The decision-makers who have the ability to influence how money is spent and how actions are taken are soccer people now, and this is the first generation where that’s the case. The opportunity to use this summer, to use LA ’28, and hopefully the Women’s World Cup in 2031 to get way more school districts and way more communities to make soccer accessible — we’re already seeing some early signs of that, and we’re excited about more to come on that front very soon.

Copy LinkMaking soccer more accessible

SAFIAN: This year’s tournament comes in a charged political climate, with US immigration enforcement and visa concerns, and the Iran situation. How much of your job is managing those broader issues? I know you’re trying to make cultural impact, and this environment could complicate things.

BATSON: We truly believe that soccer is a force for good, and we believe that more soccer in this country is going to lead to us being happier, healthier, and more connected. As I shared earlier, more than 100 million Americans are fans of the sport. One hundred million Americans barely agree on anything, so the fact that that’s one of the things they can agree on and come together around is really exciting. Last week I was in Washington, D.C., and a couple of senators and members of Congress were generous enough to host us for a lunch in the Senate dining room, where you had Republicans and Democrats, big states, small states, big cities, small cities, and rural areas, and everything in between, all coming together to talk about how to get soccer into more communities. We want to make sure we’re maniacally focused on doing just that.

SAFIAN: Your co-hosts, Canada and Mexico—I’m curious what your relationship with the Canadian and Mexican soccer bodies is. They’re also rivals on the field.

BATSON: Sure.

SAFIAN: There are a lot of levels of interaction or engagement you could have.

BATSON: Sure. My counterpart in Canada and I actually went to college together, so we’ve been friends for a very long time. Of course, with Mexico, we’re bidding for the 2031 Women’s World Cup, along with Jamaica and Costa Rica, which would be the first time a Central American or Caribbean country gets to host a World Cup. At US Soccer, we’re very focused on how we continue to support soccer in all forms and in all parts of our region. Before the World Cup draw, we were in the box with the Canadian prime minister, the Mexican president, and some US officials, as Trump was joining at the Kennedy Center, and seeing how soccer brings people together. Everyone was talking about their favorite team or their favorite game or their first experience. These opportunities for getting to know people as people, and rallying around the sport and that shared experience, are a positive thing that our world needs more of.
This summer provides an opportunity for people, whether they’re going to games or not, whether they’re soccer fans or not, to meet people from other parts of the world or even other parts of the country and come a little bit closer together.

Copy LinkInside US Soccer’s new world-class training center

SAFIAN: US Soccer recently opened a new training center in Georgia, what you called the starting point in the next chapter of the federation. Can you explain that, what the next chapter is? For a business, growth is measured in valuation. Are there different metrics that you look at?

BATSON: If someone’s listening to this and you’ve got a 7-year-old who plays soccer, success is, “Is my kid having more fun? Are they getting better? Are they developing as people?” For others, it’s going to be, “Did our team win the World Cup?” If I’m an owner of a pro sports team, it’s, “Did the value of my franchise go up? Did I sell more tickets?” The reason the opening of the Arthur M. Blank US Soccer National Training Center was so important is not just that it’s our first-ever national training center. It is now the best in the world. So many people who grew up in the American soccer ecosystem grew up in a time when our mentality was a little like the Little Engine That Could, and that was appropriate at the time. Now, this statement with the National Training Center is also a belief that we can go do really big things, and there’s no reason America can’t be the best soccer country in the world.

It’s not going to happen overnight. It’s not going to be easy, and we aren’t always going to get it right. But taking the mentality that if we believe we can do big things, and we work together and work hard at doing them, then we can do it. The belief that comes when you walk onto that facility, you see the American flag there, you feel like you’re a part of history, and you feel like you can go make history, that’s the starting point we’re excited about.

SAFIAN: Listening to JT, I’m remembering when my team at Fast Company moved into new offices in downtown Manhattan, and it really was a reset that enabled us to dream a little bigger. How are the dreams of the US men’s team impacted by the shadow of a dominant US women’s team, and how important is the on-field success at this year’s World Cup to achieving JT’s mission? We’ll get to that and more after the break. Stay with us.

[AD BREAK]

Before the break, US Soccer’s JT Batson talked about this summer’s World Cup as a critical inflection point in the future of the sport. Now he compares the evolution of the US men’s team with the US women’s team, addresses whether coach Pochettino will stay on running the men’s team after the tournament, and more. Let’s dive back in.

Copy LinkHow women’s soccer sets the standard for the US

In the women’s game, the US is the pinnacle, and European and other countries are trying to elevate themselves to that level. In the men’s game, it’s kind of the other way around.

BATSON: One of the things that I often say is that soccer is the challenger sport in our country, and we are the challenger country in our sport. For us to win, we have to be able to out-innovate, out-work, and ultimately out-work together to achieve that. I think we, of course, start with an incredible advantage from a women and girls’ soccer standpoint with Title IX. Because our federal government rightfully said that women and girls should have the same opportunities as men and boys, for decades girls in America have benefited from the best infrastructure and the best opportunities to play soccer, and that has helped us produce more World Cup-winning teams than anyone else in the world. As the rest of the world realizes that it needs to invest in women’s soccer and girls’ soccer as well, that means we can’t rest on our laurels if we want to stay No. 1.

SAFIAN: There has been this surge in popularity and valuation around women’s sports. Does that impact your ambition for the 2031 Women’s World Cup?

BATSON: One of the things that is important to note is the US women’s national team is by far the most commercially successful women’s sports team in the world, by far. As we think about 2031, and you think about the success of the NWSL, the investments USL is making, and the opportunities for more women’s soccer in communities all across this country, I think 2031 is an opportunity for us to be ambitious and to ensure that women’s professional soccer in America is declaratively the best in the world, and that it’s where all the best players want to play. It’s also an opportunity for our young players to train with the best and ultimately to be the best themselves. The success of a national team is incredibly interrelated to the success of the domestic professional league. If you are someone who cares about the success of our women’s national team, then you should absolutely care about the success of the NWSL. If you care about the success of our men’s national team, you absolutely need to care about the success of Major League Soccer.

One of the things that often gets discussed is the cost of youth soccer in America, and it is absolutely too expensive for too many people. If you look at other countries, one of the reasons the costs are so much lower for families is the success of professional soccer there, and those clubs and owners are able to invest back into youth development, so players and their families aren’t having to pay, or aren’t having to pay much. All these things are interrelated, and that’s something we very much embrace.

SAFIAN: Part of the reason that England is a perennial top-seeded team in the World Cup, or Spain is, is because they have such successful and powerful professional leagues in those places.

BATSON: Without question. If you think about the resources that come from the Premier League in the form of their youth teams and academies, as well as when they buy a player from a lower-division club who’s gotten really good, that money now allows that club to provide more opportunities for more players. The money that flows through the rest of the ecosystem by virtue of the success of their professional leagues and clubs is a huge part of why soccer is so successful in those areas. We’re just newer. We started way later than everyone else.

SAFIAN: The US men’s team still has that legacy that it’s working its way out of. What does a genuinely successful tournament look like? What might signal disappointment?

BATSON: What is exciting about where we are now is that you have so many sophisticated soccer fans in this country that I think our goal is to make them proud and to make them believe. The people who care about you most, if you make them proud, are going to bring other people on the journey. In LA, when 32,000 people signed up to come watch the team practice, the idea that at the end of this, more people want to put on their US jersey, wave the flag, and paint their faces red, white, and blue, that to me is the signal of success here. Making sure that we’re making the fullest of that moment is certainly, I wouldn’t say it keeps me up late, but it certainly gets me up early.

Copy LinkWhat comes next for Coach Pochettino

SAFIAN: There has been a lot of noise right now around whether the US men’s coach, Pochettino, will stay on as US head coach after the World Cup. What goes into decisions like that? Is that power that you have, that the team has, that he has?

BATSON: As most folks know, Mauricio’s contract runs until the end of the World Cup. I think one of the things that attracted Mauricio and his staff to US Soccer, and to coach the men’s team a couple of summers ago, was the opportunity to have an impact beyond just our men’s and women’s national teams, but on what soccer looks like in this country. Now, of course, they knew that we had a really big tournament to prepare for, and they’ve been maniacally focused on that, but they also have been key contributors to our longer-term strategy: how we’re thinking about the Olympics in ’28, how we’re thinking about our youth national teams, coaching education, and what the culture of soccer looks like in this country. Obviously, they’re excited about our future. We’re excited about a potential future with them, but we also know this summer is super important.
We’re in the soccer big leagues now, and being in the big leagues means you have world-class coaches who have an opportunity to work anywhere in the world. Our job at US Soccer is to make sure that we’re building the best possible organization for people to have an impact in soccer.

SAFIAN: It seems like you’re emotionally committed to Poch, and he maybe is emotionally committed to you, but there’s the financial part of it, and he may have other options, so you sort of have to wait to see how things go.

BATSON: I’m certain that Mauricio is emotionally committed to this team. This is someone who has really come to love and admire everything about US Soccer, everything about the team, the players, and the country more broadly. I think we’re excited about the potential of a future, but as you say, there are lots of options that he will have, and we, of course, are focused on Paraguay on Friday, and we know we’ve got to get a result.

SAFIAN: Of course, it’s better for US Soccer if the men’s national team does very well in the tournament, but in some ways, ironically, even if they don’t, if American fans are excited to see the French team or the Argentinian team or whoever else play, then it’s still good for US Soccer, for the US Soccer Federation, in the long run.

BATSON: I think hopefully we’re playing in the final, but in the world where we’re not, I want our fans to ultimately hold us accountable and hold themselves accountable, because ultimately it’s going to take all of us to do the things that are necessary so that we can consistently go win World Cups.

SAFIAN: You are not ready to acknowledge at all that if the US doesn’t perform well on the field, it’s OK.

BATSON: We want to win, and I think we should have an expectation of doing great things. Anyone who’s been a part of anything where you’ve been pushing the envelope knows you don’t always win on the first go. Sometimes you don’t get as high as you want to go, or it doesn’t go as fast as you want to go, but you’re ultimately committed to getting there. It’s the reason we talk about them as generational ambitions, because we know that some of these things will take time, but we’re all committed to doing so, and everyone plays a part in making that happen.

SAFIAN: Well, JT, thanks for talking to us about this.

BATSON: Great to be with you.

SAFIAN: What strikes me about JT’s World Cup aspiration is how interconnected it is: the US team inspiring the next generation of players, the intersection of domestic leagues and national teams. It’s a flywheel that builds momentum, as any good business strategy will. As for the role of soccer in the world, my son’s played on youth teams and in college, so maybe I’m biased, but I agree with JT that there’s something about this sport, the way it demands collaboration and creativity and a kind of joyful competitiveness, that translates beyond the pitch. It’s quintessentially human, and in today’s times, that’s something to lean into. As the World Cup unfolds, whether you’re rooting with high energy or mild curiosity, I hope you’ll tap into what it feels like to just play. There’s plenty of power in that for all of us. I’m Bob Safian. Thanks for listening.