Super Bowl ads, Bad Bunny & the business of cultural risk

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DARA TRESEDER: Many of the ads were just so forgettable, and I think that some brands could have sat it out. They should have looked and said, “Hey, do I have something simple I want to say that I can really cut through? Is this sincere to who we are in this moment? And am I actually making a statement about something?” Now, if you weren’t ticking all those boxes this year, I don’t think this was the year for you to have done a Super Bowl ad. The best ad of the night was Bad Bunny for Bad Bunny.

BOB SAFIAN: That’s Dara Treseder, Chief Marketing Officer of Autodesk, back on the show to break down this year’s Super Bowl ads, what worked, what didn’t, what we can all learn from the high-cost high-wire act, from Anthropic’s shot at OpenAI, to Lady Gaga’s homage to Mr. Rogers, to Duncan’s nostalgia fueled celeb fest. We also dig into the Bad Bunny halftime show and what it means for the NFL and Apple. And Dara shares her view of Black History Month and opens up about her personal experience as a Black woman in America. It’s timely, uplifting, and instructive. So let’s get to it. I’m Bob Safian, and this is Rapid Response.

[THEME MUSIC]

I’m Bob Safian. I’m here with Dara Treseder, the CMO of Autodesk. Dara, great to have you back on Rapid Response. You ready for our annual post Super Bowl dish?

TRESEDER: I’m excited. I’ve been looking forward to this.

Copy LinkEvaluating what makes a Super Bowl ad succeed

SAFIAN: So I have to say that the on-field game wasn’t much of a contest, kind of a blowout, but plenty of trick plays and Hail Marys in the ad battle. The cost for a 30-second ad this year was somewhere between 8 and $10 million to place. You talk about ROMI, return on marketing investment, what’s worthwhile, what breaks through. Just quick off the bat, any big winners or losers that jumped out at you?

TRESEDER: There were some big winners. I think Anthropic was a big winner this year. Rocket and Pepsi were big winners this year. So we can go into details, but off the bat, I would say those were some of the big winners this year.

SAFIAN: I’ve been scanning all the best and worst lists online, and there’s roughly zero consensus.

TRESEDER: I would say we are the authority, Bob.

SAFIAN: But I know you use this lens of memorable, relevant, and ownable, right?

TRESEDER: Yes.

SAFIAN: And so is that why you’re particularly picking those three that you mentioned?

TRESEDER: So we have been using ownable, relevant, and memorable for the past few years now. And this year we are adding a new layer. Given the context of where we are at, I think we have to add the lens of simplicity. So was it simple enough? Because there’s so much chaos happening in the world. I think it had to also be sincere. There is so much insincerity and inauthenticity in today’s context. And the last thing I would say is it had to be statement-making. To win this year, you had to be making a statement of a sort.

Copy LinkCelebrity power: Dunkin, Squarespace, Levis

SAFIAN: So I saw a lot of mentions in the other lists of the Dunkin ad, the Good Will Dunkin spot fronted by Ben Affleck. Does it fit on all of the layers that you’re looking at?

TRESEDER: So I thought that that ad was sincere. You saw a lot of insincere use of celebrity. The only winners this year from a celebrity standpoint were the celebrities who got paid. Okay? A lot of brands used celebrities in ways that they really did not need to do that. Over $250 million was spent on celebrity placements for these Super Bowl ads. That’s a quarter of a billion dollars.

SAFIAN: Wow.

TRESEDER: And the ROI was really not there. In fact, 60% of the Super Bowl ads this year used celebrities, and many did not use them intentionally or use them well. I think Good Will Dunkin was where celebrity use made sense. We all know one thing is true about Ben Affleck. He does like a Jennifer, and he does like Dunkin Donuts.

SAFIAN: And like some of the more artsy highbrow ads like Emma Stone for Squarespace or Adrien Brody’s TurboTax, sort of purposely overacting, that was effective or sort of modest?

TRESEDER: I think it was modest. I don’t think it quite cut through as well. I would say that the Squarespace one was simple. Get a domain name using Squarespace. Many people might have thought about Squarespace to design their website, but not necessarily like, “I’m not even ready to design yet, but have I gotten my domain name yet?” That “If emmastone.com is unavailable, girl, what you sitting on? Go get your domain name right now,” that cut through. I even had my kid say, “Mommy, should I get my domain name?” I was like, “Wow, this is cutting through all generations right now.” We’ve got an eight-year-old wanting to figure out if he needs to get his domain name or not.

SAFIAN: He better. He better. Otherwise, someone else is going to get it.

TRESEDER: He better.

SAFIAN: Right. In some ways, one of the simplest ads to me that sort of cut through was the Levi’s ad, which just focused on rear end.

TRESEDER: It worked. It worked. My son was like, “Are we looking at butts? What’s going on here?” But you know what? It showed that look, every human body is original, and whoever you are, we’ve got jeans for you.

Copy LinkBiggest risks: Rocket, Pepsi

SAFIAN: So much about marketing is about pursuing attention, particularly in the Super Bowl. But it’s this interesting time because brands are also wary about sparking controversy. How do you get attention and stay under the radar at the same time, a little bit? And you mentioned this, one of the biggest risks I thought was the Rocket Lady Gaga ad using “Won’t You Be My Neighbor?” from Mr. Rogers’ Neighborhood. To me, it was treading a line with all of the ICE controversy and neighbors, activists handing out ICE Out towels in front of the stadium. That’s one of the ones you said stood out to you.

TRESEDER: That was an incredible, incredible ad. I thought everything about that was brilliant. From the insight, the insight was rooted in the business strategy. They have that line: Own the dream. And then the execution was really well done.

First of all, let’s talk about good use of celebrity. They used Lady Gaga to rerecord “Will You Be My Neighbor?”, the Mr. Rogers song. That was beautiful. Even before the ad came out, all over social media from Maria Shriver, people were sharing just the song. The song itself, the Lady Gaga execution of that song was amazing. 

And then you have the added cultural context of Lady Gaga being a big winner in the Grammys this year, and then Lady Gaga also happened to be in the halftime show. So you had the musical choice for the ad; so spot on. I thought that there was a lot of love for that ad because given everything going on in our context right now, that ad was one of the few ads, if not the only ad, that made a statement in our cultural context that was tonally appropriate.

And it did it without passing judgment. And I love that because it was an invitation to all of us to say, “Hey, how can I be a better neighbor?” And that’s a call that all of us can identify with from a cultural standpoint. And of course, there’s a business standpoint of, “As you’re looking to find your next home, come and use Redfin or Rocket.” There was that underlying premise. We love when culture and brand magic is sitting on the bedrock foundation of a solid business strategy.

SAFIAN: Another one of the ads that you mentioned was the Pepsi ad, which was a risk of a different kind, this polar bear ad that adopted Coke’s mascot to use against them. It was bold.

TRESEDER: The return of rivalry. We love that. The return of rivalry. I thought that was a brilliant ad, and the internet loved the ad. And I think part of what made it work so well was it was a little self-deprecating. And it’s okay to say you like Pepsi better. That sort of self-deprecating layer I think worked really nicely. Also, the fact that they were able to co-opt the polar bear, that worked incredibly well. 

And Taika Waititi, who doesn’t love a good Taika Waititi? And I obviously have to give a shout-out to our Autodesk customer, Framestore, who used our ‘design and make’ platform to bring that world to life. But I did think even the art was well done. It was tastefully well done.

SAFIAN: And it did hark back to Pepsi’s own legacy of the “Take the Pepsi” challenge from way back, right?

TRESEDER: Exactly.

SAFIAN: It’s always been their fighter persona in the marketplace.

TRESEDER: They’ve always had that fighter persona. I thought they personified that, and they made a statement. Making a statement doesn’t have to be a statement about the cultural environment. It could be a statement about your truth, but on a platform as big as the Super Bowl, it was sad to me that a lot of brands said nothing. One of the things I loved about Pepsi is they said something. They said something about who they are as a brand. They said something about the competition. They might not have made a cultural statement, but they made a category statement.

Copy LinkAI ads: Anthropic, Genspark, Codex

SAFIAN: The other ad that you mentioned and was also a bold shot was Anthropic’s jab at OpenAI. Definitely came in hard with their Claude spots. Did they win even before the Super Bowl ad ran?

TRESEDER: They won.

SAFIAN: Because people were talking about it.

TRESEDER: Well, before the Super Bowl ad ran, they were talking about it. Very few times my husband sends me a text about an ad. It grabbed a lot of people. The ads were incredibly well done. When you also think about the 360 strategy of, “Hey, we are going to maximize conversation and ROI,” they absolutely did that. When you take a shot at another company, and the CEO and the CMO of that company start to comment, you know you’ve won because you struck a nerve. Now I think that the proof will be in the pudding because now if they start to bring ads to their platform, the internet will not forgive.

SAFIAN: Yes. It’s a strategic business decision to play that up. It’s not just a tagline. You got to live with it.

TRESEDER: You got to live with that. You absolutely have to live with that.

SAFIAN: There were a lot of AI-related ads. Something like one in four of the ads I was tracking were AI. One of my producers really liked OpenAI’s ad for Codex. Another one hated the Genspark ad, the one with Matthew Broderick for being tone deaf about people’s fear of AI. All of these ads around AI, is it like it was a couple of years ago where suddenly every ad seemed like it was from a crypto company? Is this a bubble? What does all that mean?

TRESEDER: I think the big picture was AI is here to stay. That was the big picture. The ads were not as spot on or bullseye as they could have been. So there wasn’t a single AI ad that I would say, other than the Anthropic ad, that we talked about. It almost felt like Anthropic was over here, and everybody else was over here. So there was a huge gap. So the AI winner was Anthropic, and everybody else was either meh or even in the loser category. But in general, the AI ads, they were overdone this year.

Copy Link“The overarching theme this year was disappointment”

I would say the overarching theme this year was disappointment. I think a lot of the ads were not that great. There were a few standout ads, and we’ve talked about them and, I think, a few honorable mentions, and we’ve talked about a few of them as well, but the majority of the ads were a little meh. It’s like, when your agency comes to you and suggests Bowen Yang, John Hamm and Scarlet Johansson in a spot, your question should be, “Why?” And if it’s not clear, maybe don’t do that.

SAFIAN: They were just trying to reach every demographic.

TRESEDER: It doesn’t work. When you try to speak to everyone, you speak to no one.

SAFIAN: The YouTube ad about things being meh, I thought it was a meh ad too. I was like, “You’ve defined yourself perfectly.”

TRESEDER: It was a meh ad. There was just a lot of meh. And I think this is one of the things that I worry about with our industry. I worry that in the age of more, the lack of focus on being excellent at the fundamentals leads to a lot of mediocrity. I’ve talked about how AI raises the floor, but it’s human ingenuity that’s going to raise the ceiling. And I thought that a lot of ads were playing at the floor. There was just a lot of mediocrity. Many of the ads were just so forgettable. 

And I think that some brands could have sat it out. They should have looked and said, “Hey, do I have something simple I want to say that I can really cut through? Is this sincere to who we are in this moment? And am I actually making a statement about something?” Now, if you weren’t ticking all those boxes this year, I don’t think this was the year for you to have done a Super Bowl ad.

SAFIAN: Dara isn’t shy with her critiques. So what did she think of the Bad Bunny halftime show? Was it good for the NFL and for Apple? And how is she personally trying to show up with simplicity in a statement as a leader right now? We’ll talk about that more after the break. Stay with us.

[AD BREAK]

Before the break, Autodesk’s Dara Treseder took us through the highs and lows of this year’s Super Bowl ads. Now we talk about the Bad Bunny halftime show, what it says about the NFL and Apple, and what it means to live in the purple. Plus, assessing the brand of Black History Month, AI and layoffs, and the power of joy. Let’s jump back in.

Copy LinkWhy Bad Bunny won the Super Bowl

In many ways, the biggest statement of the Super Bowl was the halftime show. Bad Bunny, singing in Spanish. At the Super Bowl party that I was at, some folks loved it. Some honestly were put off. “I don’t understand what he’s saying.” What was the larger impact, do you think?

TRESEDER: The best ad of the day, of the night, was Bad Bunny for Bad Bunny. I thought he did an incredible job. And at my Super Bowl party, I was up, I was dancing, I had a great time. Now, there were also people at my Super Bowl that were like, they were not up, they were not dancing. And I think that was reflective. I think your Super Bowl party and my Super Bowl party were reflective of what’s going on in the world today. The people who didn’t want Bad Bunny there, there was nothing he could have done to have pleased them. So to have tried to please them would have been a failure. 

I thought he was a tremendous success because he spoke to the people who he needed to speak to, and he did it in a way that was incredibly authentic to them. From a real life couple getting married, to Lady Gaga performing, to just the joy. The overwhelming thing was joy and unity. He said, “God bless America.” And he said it in English, so everybody could understand that. He had the football that said, “Together we are America.”

SAFIAN: But the America he referred to then wasn’t just the United States of America, right? He referred to all of the countries in the Americas, which again, turned some people off. There’s risk in that.

TRESEDER: I thought what he was saying, and this might be my own little interpretation, but I thought he was talking about all of these people come to America, and then they are American. And that very much resonated with me as an immigrant. 

I’ll go a step further and say I thought it was win for Apple, I thought it was a win for NFL because they are trying to be global. These are global brands.  And guess what? Who is global? Bad Bunny is global. A lot of people all over the world love Bad Bunny. The NFL is trying to go global. You saw that they were even showing the watch parties. “Here’s people watching the NFL in London.” And they’re trying to be more global as an institution.

So to take a very established and loved global superstar, who by the way, again, was the winner from the Grammys, and they didn’t know that when they chose him, but they stuck with him through the controversy. So I think that also builds goodwill because they would never have won by ditching, and by opining with a spine, I think they have actually gained more followers and loyalists than if they pulled away. And guess what? Those other people, they still tuned in, and they still watched the game anyway.

SAFIAN: And the fact that President Trump called out Bad Bunny before.  Turning Point, Charlie Kirk’s organization, puts on an alternate halftime show fronted by Kid Rock.

TRESEDER: Did you watch that?

SAFIAN: No.

TRESEDER: Bob, did you leave the halftime show to –

SAFIAN: No.

TRESEDER: Neither did I.

SAFIAN: No, I did not. I did not watch that, but it got a lot of attention. And I guess the question it raises for me is the Super Bowl is one of the few shared experiences these days across the United States, across the world. And yet you could say that in some ways having Bad Bunny undercut that a little bit instead of connecting us.

TRESEDER: I disagree. I disagree. I think that Bad Bunny united us. There are things that he could have chosen to say or chosen to do that would have been divisive. Instead, he says, “God bless America” in English. He has a football that says, “Together we are America.” And so I actually thought that he brought healing, he brought hope, and he brought unity.

Copy LinkHow to “opine with a spine”

SAFIAN: You encourage us all to opine with a spine and to not try to be everything for everyone, but at the same time, there’s so much risk of being called out as being partisan in the United States. And how do we live in the purple, not in the red or in the blue, but in the purple? Is that question running in your head all the time?

TRESEDER: What is honestly running in my head a lot of the time is, are we saying the things we need to say to the people we need to say them to in a sincere way? And I think sometimes that might be a statement that is red. It might be a statement that is blue. It might be a statement that is purple.

I think that that’s actually not the problem. The problem that we are facing or seeing is moral decay. And it’s saying, “Hey, I might be making whatever statement I’m going to make, but I’m going to make it in a way that is really awful and rude or racist or hateful.” And I think that what I love about what Bad Bunny did is he showed us, “You can be you, and you can make the statements you want to make, but you can do it in a way that is full of integrity and in a way that is not hateful.” And I think if more Americans, whether you are red, whether you were blue or whether you are purple, if more Americans did that, I think we would be living in a less polarized society and in a more joyful society.

Copy LinkReflecting on the 100th celebration of Black History Month

SAFIAN: I noticed that last week you posted a picture on LinkedIn of you with your family, with your kids, your husband, even the dog, and the heading was Happy Black History Month. Your husband’s not black. You were born in Nigeria. And you wrote, “Our kids have been asking a lot of questions lately. So much feels heavy right now.” And you talk about courage and justice and dignity. What prompted you to share that publicly?

TRESEDER: This is the 100 years of celebrating what we know today as Black History Month. It’s the 100th celebration. And some people have chosen not to recognize or celebrate this Black History Month at all. Beyond that, some people have chosen to roll back some of the progress that Black people have made over the last 100 years, or they’re trying to roll it back and they’re criticizing it. There is a rise in anti-blackness and in anti-black sentiment, right? Racism is at an all time high in modern history. So now I’m going back 20, 30 years. And so as a Black woman, as a Black leader in today’s world, I felt it was important for me to acknowledge what is going on and to share a message that I hope is a message of hope, is a message of encouragement, and is helping people be seen.

There are historic levels of unemployment for Black people, especially Black women. It doesn’t get a lot of coverage, but it is the fact. And not a lot of Black people and Black women feel like they can say something because there is also a lot of fear, fear of retribution, fear of judgment. And do I feel fear? Absolutely. Bob, I feel fear. I feel afraid. I have not felt this scared in a very, very long time. The last time I felt this scared was when I was in Nigeria and there was a coup, and we lived under military rule. That is the last time I felt the levels of fear and anxiety that I feel right now.

So I feel fear, and I still think it is important to say something because I’m thinking if I, who have some privilege, right, I went to great schools, I have some financial security. So if I feel afraid and say nothing, what about the millions of Black Americans who might feel this fear as well, but maybe don’t feel like they’re in a position to say something or even in a position that anyone might even listen? And so to me, it’s important to say something because that is critical for not only acknowledging the moment, but rallying each and every one of us to do whatever we can do in our own sphere of influence to be a light, to help to push things forward, to keep progress moving. 

Because when Black people in America are treated fairly, are treated well, are treated with dignity, it is good for all Americans. And I think we have a duty to the next generation coming after us to make sure that we leave this world a better place than how we found it.

SAFIAN: This fear, does it make you, I don’t want to say less proud, but how does it make you feel about being an American or what it means to be an American? Does it mean something different? I’m sure you’re still rooting for Team USA at the Olympics.

TRESEDER: I’m always rooting for Team USA. I will always be proud to be an American. You might know my husband is a Marine, so we are a military family. I love this country so much. I will always love this country. And it is the love that I have for this country that inspires me to say, “Hey, let’s look here. How can we continue to be our best selves?” It is the love that I have for this country that compels me to call out injustice when I see this. It is from a place of love, from a place of saying, “This is a country that I deeply believe in.” Nigeria was my country of birth. America is my country of choice. This is where I chose to come to. This is a country I chose to become a citizen of intentionally. I love this country, and I always will. And I also think it’s important for me to say when I feel like we could be better, “Hey, here’s where I think we could be better.” Or more than just say, do something about it.

SAFIAN: Professionally at Autodesk, you are supporting Team USA.

TRESEDER: Absolutely.

SAFIAN: You’re the official design-and-make platform for Team USA in the Olympics. What does that mean?

TRESEDER: The designing and making of the games, of the different venues, of the stadiums, of the equipment, a lot of that is designed and made with our Autodesk software by our amazing customers all around the world. And it’s been just incredible to even see the Winter Olympics kickoff. The flag bearer of Team USA, Erin Jackson, is an Autodesk athlete. And it’s been an amazing journey for us to have been on this journey with Erin and several of the other Team USA athletes. We’re cheering for them, we’re rooting for them, and we look forward to seeing the medals that they’re going to bring back home.

SAFIAN: We talked with the Super Bowl ads about the challenges around AI. Autodesk recently announced a round of layoffs pointing to AI’s impacts. I know your products are increasingly infused with AI. Do you have any conflicting feelings around what AI is doing to us, how we’re reacting to it?

TRESEDER: First of all, let me just say it’s never great when anyone loses their job. And Autodesk is not alone in the businesses who have had to take action like that this year. Whenever we have any technological revolution like I think we are going through with AI, there’s always going to be a shift. And so what that means is roles are going to look different. New roles are going to be created and developed that utilize AI in different ways, and certain roles are going to evolve or shift. So that, I think, is what always happens when you have these technological leaps like what we are seeing happen today. And so that’s what the journey we’ve been on, and it’s the journey we’ll continue to be on.

Copy LinkThe pursuit of joy as resistance

SAFIAN: So the Super Bowl is called the Big Game, right? And whether you think about the ads or the teams or the halftime show, it’s meant to be fun. A lot of the other things that we’ve talked about that are underway in our world, they’re not always about fun. They can get dark and anxious and scary. How do you manage that reality as a business leader? How do you know when fun is a distraction or an essential antidote?

TRESEDER: I really believe that joy is resistance. In my life personally, in my life professionally, I think it’s important to bring joy in. I think that for the people who I work with, have the privilege to work with, I think it’s important that I am carrying in the sunshine. I am bringing in the sunshine, and I am bringing in the joy. In my home, to the children that I parent and my amazing husband and my wonderful kids and my puppy Bjorn, I want to make sure that I’m bringing in the joy and I’m bringing in the sunshine. And I think that regardless of what is happening in the world, I try to always find joy and bring joy in. And joy is not happiness. I want to be clear on that. Joy is not happiness. So I could be sad, and I can still have joy. I could be angry, and I could still have joy. I can be afraid and anxious, and I can still have joy. To me, joy is a choice.

There’s a saying in my faith, “The joy of the Lord is my strength.” I really believe that. I think that joy is my strength, and that’s something that I repeat to myself every day. And so regardless of what is going on in the world around me, regardless of the things that might scare me, regardless of the things that might leave me asking why or questioning why this is happening, one thing that I can always hold onto is joy, and I can always hold onto is love. 

And that’s what I tell my kids. They ask, “Mommy, why don’t people like Black people? What have we done? Why are people against us?” They don’t understand. And I can’t always explain everything, but one thing I can teach them is that regardless of what comes your way, you can hold onto joy, you can hold onto love. And if you hold onto joy and love, you will carry the sunshine into any room that you walk in.

SAFIAN: Well, Dara, you always make this joyful for me. So thank you, as always, for your friendship and for having this conversation.

TRESEDER: Thank you. Thank you, Bob.

SAFIAN: When I do these interviews, I sometimes play devil’s advocate to prod our guests, get beyond the surface. I feel a lot like Dara does about the Bad Bunny halftime show, but I’m not sure I would know that if I hadn’t pressed a bit. There’s risk in pressing, not just in conversations and brand messages, but in every job. And yet in so many ways, that pressing is the job. I’ve been thinking about Dara’s reflection that making a statement as a business doesn’t need to be political. It can be a statement about your category, how you distinguish yourself, who you want to be.

Dara’s emphasis on the pursuit of joy, it’s one of the biggest statements we can make today. When volatile forces make us want to shrink or despair, what’s more disruptive than joy? So where you can, channel your own joy at work, at home, for yourself, for others. It’s a superpower worth using and sharing. I’m Bob Safian. Thanks for listening.