EVERETTE TAYLOR: We have millions of people using Kickstarter every day. We have all these competitors are popping up and things like that, trying to come take shots at the throne. It comes with the territory. Our moat is our audience more than anything, so we need to continue to invest not only in growing that audience, but making that audience more engaged. Honestly, think we’ve got the best community. Your community’s cool too, Bob.

BOB SAFIAN: Thank you.

TAYLOR: Number two. We’re number one.

SAFIAN: That’s Everette Taylor, CEO of Kickstarter. Since Everette was last on this show two years ago, he’s replaced his leadership team, expanded the platform’s ambitions, and just this month launched a host of tools to attract new users and reengage old ones. If you’ve heard Everette before, you know he’s blunt, funny, and unapologetically confident. Today, Everette talks up the benefits of Kickstarter’s four-day work week, takes issue with the backlash against corporate DEI efforts, and argues why making progress requires doing things in a new way. There’s nothing shy in our exchanges, so let’s get to it. I’m Bob Safian, and this is Rapid Response.

I’m Bob Safian. I’m here with Everette Taylor, CEO of Kickstarter. Everette, thanks for being here.

TAYLOR: Thank you. Brooklyn in the house, man.

The evolution of Kickstarter’s cultural hub initiative

SAFIAN: You were on the show two years ago, just a few months into your role as CEO. We talked about your desire to elevate Kickstarter from a crowdfunding platform into a broader cultural hub. And so I’m curious, how’s that gone since we spoke? Is there a different journey you’ve jumped into?

TAYLOR: Bob, it’s a beautiful journey right now. The company has grown every year under my leadership. We just made a ton of new product announcements today. It’s been this balance of serving our community with all of these things they’ve been asking for for a long time, but then at the same time, also innovating beyond what crowdfunding was a few years ago. And so we are really building that cultural hub. I’m really excited. We’re moving in the right direction. Bob, life is good, man.

SAFIAN: The new tools you just announced, these are primarily marketing tools, right? From news coverage, I sort of get the impression that today’s creators and entrepreneurs are better at marketing than the earlier generations, but is that a myth?

TAYLOR: Bob, I think people are a little bit more internet savvy, but also, the internet is so much more saturated, right? And these social platforms that used to organically give you so much reach is the opposite now. Since TikTok came back, I’ve heard from creators saying, “It doesn’t feel the same. Something’s different.” And so for us, we want to make sure that we’re providing people the tools to be successful, to reach their audience, but also be able to handle all of this stuff like shipping and taxes. It might be the boring stuff, but very, very important for your business. But in terms of marketing, I think there’s a range. Some people got it, some people don’t. But when you come to Kickstarter, we can deliver the audience and we can deliver the tools to help you.

SAFIAN: I know your background is in marketing and the marketing world certainly has gotten harder to, I guess, be effective, right? Because everything moves so fast and there is so much noise out there.

TAYLOR: Yeah. It’s a ton of noise out there. But I think what’s beautiful about Kickstarter is two things. Number one is that our creators are phenomenal. These people are creating the most innovative films and games and technology and music. It’s just so extraordinary, and it really touches people in a different way no matter what’s going on in the world. And the other thing is the community that we have. These are a lot of people who want to support the next and newest thing and want to invest into these creators and their amazing stories. I honestly think we’ve got the best community. Your community’s cool too, Bob.

SAFIAN: Oh, thank you.

TAYLOR: Number two. We’re number one.

Inside Kickstarter’s ‘biggest change to the platform’

SAFIAN: You implemented a new feature called Late Pledges recently that you said is the biggest change to the platform since the company began. Those are some big words. Can you explain what Late Pledges is and what makes it so big?

TAYLOR: Bob, I’ve got to go big, man. I’m a marketer. But no, seriously. Late Pledges is interesting because crowdfunding has always been defined by this box of time. Kickstarter and most crowdfunding platforms only allow you up to 60 days. It’s that time and that sense of urgency. But how many times have you heard someone or been able to use the excuse like, “Oh man, Michael, sorry, I missed your Kickstarter. I wish I could have.” And now Michael can go to you, Bob, and say, “Hey, Bob, actually, you can still give.” So if you are successful on your project, you can still keep your Kickstarter open. We’re seeing people raise substantially more money even after their project is over. And we also launched last year our own performance marketing service, which absolutely crushed it. And they are working with creators to drive audience to their pages as well.

SAFIAN: But these late pledges, it’s not for the folks who couldn’t get enough to reach their goal, it’s for the successful ones to be even more successful, even bigger.

TAYLOR: Yes, it’s for the ones that have already hit their goal and we know that they have the resources now to deliver whatever it is that they want to deliver. And it’s like, why not make some more money?

The different types of users that Kickstarter attracts

SAFIAN: You talked about the community that Kickstarter has, and part of that community is these loyal backers of projects. But finding new, maybe more casual, backers, it’s been a challenge. How do you address that? How do you attract new folks for that part of it?

TAYLOR: I mean, our community’s still growing fast, man. I will say this, Bob. I’m a straight shooter. I’m from Southside, Richmond, Virginia. I keeps it real. You have primarily two types of backers on Kickstarter. The first type of backer is what I described earlier. It’s these impassioned folks that are really invested in bringing new ideas into the world, going on Kickstarter on a regular basis, or they might see and be inspired by someone and they’re like, “I really want to invest in this project or this idea.” Then on the other side, which is not a bad thing, by the way, is people who just want the products. They see a Peloton, they see an Oura Ring. They are almost like e-commerce buyers, where they’re just like, “This is a cool product. This is a cool film, this is a cool thing. I want it.” And we are having more and more of those types of people on the platform. And I think it’s important to have both, to have a balance of both types of backers.

SAFIAN: On other platforms, getting it immediately is such a key part of it, and yet a key part of Kickstarter is like, “Okay, you’ll get it once we build it,” right? You’re waiting more. So it is a different relationship.

TAYLOR: It is, but also, there are people who are raising millions of dollars. Last time we spoke, I told you about Brandon Sanderson, who raised 42 million dollars in one project. Last year, he did another project for a game that raised over $15 million. And so we have these power users now that are these established companies and creators that, hey, as soon as the project is done, they’re shipping these products out. And it’s not because they need the money from crowdfunding, but they want the community and audience that we’re able to drive, and they want to be able to get the feedback early on the things that they’re putting out there into the world. That’s why we have large brands like L’Oreal and et cetera, still using Kickstarter to launch new products.

SAFIAN: So for those kinds of creators, it’s not really about the crowdfunding for the funding, it’s promotional, it’s marketing. It’s a way to get out in front of a community of users and buyers and fans.

TAYLOR: Yeah. I mean, we have millions of people using Kickstarter every day. So if you go to your phone right now, Bob, you’ll see that it’s Kickstarter is considered a social app. It’s categorized with Instagram and TikTok and these other apps. I tell people that this is where your most dedicated followers are. Forget Instagram when you’ve got a million followers and then 1,000 people like your picture, or you’re trying to sell something and people barely see it. When you launch a Kickstarter, every single person that’s ever supported you on the platform gets notified about that project. And so it’s really about the audience that is really engaged, willing to buy, willing to support you, and I think that’s something beautiful about the platform.

SAFIAN: And so big brands, like L’Oreal that you mentioned that started using Kickstarter, I mean, they’ve got enough resources that they don’t need it for crowdfunding, right?

TAYLOR: Yeah. They don’t need it for crowdfunding, but they know that the people here are on the precipice of all of the new innovations and technology, and so they want to get the feedback from those types of backers, because they’ll tell it to you straight, good, bad, and the ugly on Kickstarter. You know that, Bob.

SAFIAN: And so it’s both a testing platform for them and a way to, I don’t know, generate their own influencers essentially around a product or an idea?

TAYLOR: Yeah, absolutely. And also, there’s a lot of people on Kickstarter that may have never used L’Oreal products before.

Challenges in leadership and building the right team

SAFIAN: We didn’t talk about this much last time, but your first 90 days as CEO were tough. The team you inherited wasn’t totally on board. And I know last summer you shook up the leadership team. I’m curious why you felt that was necessary.

TAYLOR: The reason that I made those moves is that, at the end of the day, I have a vision for the company and we’re moving in a different direction, and every one of those people are excellent, awesome, hard-working people. I just needed my people, Bob. I needed to get my squad in here. I’ve got my squad now, and we are running now. And so it’s always hard. It’s always tough to make those decisions, but at the end of the day, my job as CEO is to do the best thing for our community, for our shareholders, and I made those decisions with that in mind. And alignment is key. When you’re misaligned, it’s bad. I’m all about impact, Bob, I’m ready to go. I’m trying to make things happen.

SAFIAN: You mentioned your squad. One of my colleagues noted to me that all of your executive team now are people of color, which is quite different than when you arrived. Was that by design?

TAYLOR: We just hired another person who is not a person of color, so that fact is not true anymore actually, but it’s basically ninety-something percent true. But I hire the best people. It wasn’t intentional. The only intentional thing was to make sure that we had diverse candidates in the pipeline, but awesome, diverse candidates. And diversity is under attack a lot right now. To me it’s like, just hire the best people. If you are willing to make sure that you are getting people from all different backgrounds in your pipeline, I guarantee you it’ll be okay. Will you hire white men? Yes. They’re awesome too. It’s okay. It’s not evil, right? It’s not black and white. Just hire the best people, man. And so that’s what I’m committed to, and committed to continue to have diverse pipelines here. I’m not scared of the word diverse. People are making it sound like you’re saying candyman three times when you say DEI. So it’s crazy right now, but at the end of the day, I’m committed to hiring the best people. Point-blank, period.

SAFIAN: I think you said this to me before, but that your lived experience sets you apart in many boardrooms and that it’s something that you lean into, as you’re building your team. Are you looking for lived experiences like yours? Are you looking for lived experiences that are radically different from yours, or is being different from those other boardrooms what can unlock the creativity that you’re looking for?

TAYLOR: Well, first thing is that can they do the job? Are they awesome at what they do? And then the second piece is, do they bring a different perspective? If I hire someone exactly like me, I think that’s kind of bad. We should have someone that has a completely different perspective than me. I don’t want people that think exactly like me. And so I’m always open to hearing other perspectives, and I love that diversity and thought and lived experience.

SAFIAN: Yeah, I mean, this backlash against DEI and some of the programs I saw today that Goldman Sachs had committed that any company they take public needs to have at least two board members who are not white men. Now they’re not holding to that anymore. When you hear things like that, do you get angry or are you’re so used to it at this point that, “Yeah, that’s just the world we’re in”?

TAYLOR: Bob, I’m a black man from Richmond, Virginia. Richmond was the former capital of the Confederacy. I grew up seeing Confederate flags. Look, I am not unaware of my place here in the world and the world around me. All I’m focused on is making the world a better place in any way that I can. Kickstarter is beautiful because we have an incredibly diverse team of amazing people from all different backgrounds, serving an incredibly diverse community of creators and backers. We’re bringing amazing things in the world. So what I’m focused on is leading through action and doing the right thing. I can’t control what all these other people are doing, but I just know that I’m going to do things my way and I’m going to try to do things the right way.

SAFIAN: Everette isn’t just unafraid to do things a different way. You get the feeling that he kind of enjoys it, which may be what’s needed to build a new future for a fifteen-year-old brand. So what else is he doing differently? We’ll talk about that after the break. Stay with us.

[AD BREAK]

SAFIAN: Before the break, Kickstarter, CEO, Everette Taylor talked about how the crowdsourcing platform is changing, including attracting bigger brands like L’Oreal. Now, he shares why the company has embraced a four-day work week, plus encourages the powers that be in the business world to, “take a chance on younger, less experienced CEOs like him.” Let’s dive back in.

Kickstarter’s embrace of a four-day work week

A distinctive part about how Kickstarter operates as a company is that you have a four-day work week. And this is a time when some firms are pushing five days in the office. Your whole work week is four days, remote and in the office, yet you’re in the 60th percentile for pay in the tech industry. How does that work? How do you achieve that and what do people misunderstand about a shorter work week?

TAYLOR: Well, this is the thing. You have to be realistic about your staff and your workforce. The truth of the matter is a lot of people are just not working 40 hours. A lot of people probably are working closer to maybe 30 to 32 hours a week. And so why not make that the most productive 32 hours and the most efficient 32 hours that we can? We cut out so much BS. We’re very efficient in terms of meetings, making sure we have clear agendas. It’s a bad thing to be in meetings that you don’t need to be in. I don’t have weekly one-on-ones with any of my execs, Bob.

SAFIAN: And you decided to make that change why?

TAYLOR: I made that change because I realized that one-on-ones can be very ineffective and that you should speak to someone when you actually have something to speak with them about. So we have an exec meeting every week, and in that meeting, the way that I treat my team is, everything’s out in the open. And then we have two one-hour blocks on Tuesday and Thursday where execs can get time with each other if needed. And if you don’t need any time with someone, you can use that to actually be productive in your work. And it’s worked out very, very well for us.

SAFIAN: And you don’t worry, as some CEOs might, that, “Well, I’m supposed to have people work 40 hours a week, but they’re not doing it, so I’ll have them work 32 hours a week.” That maybe some people then aren’t working 32 hours a week and you’re not getting more from them, right?

TAYLOR: Yeah. But we have ways of holding people accountable and measuring progress. And so if you’re going to go to a four-day work week, it’s actually really important to have measures of accountability. And I will say this, Bob. You need that fifth day off, because the four-day work week is intense, because you’re trying to get so much done in a condensed period, and so you do need that fifth day. I work seven days a week. You know me, Bob.

SAFIAN: I was going to say, are you working four days? Because I don’t get that sense. It seems like you’re always working.

TAYLOR: Bob, I love it though, man. Dude, I love this. I love art. I love Pop Tarts. I love Kickstarter, man. These are the things that I’m passionate about in life. And when you’re passionate about something, why wouldn’t I be available on Sunday at 8 P.M. if someone needed me?

SAFIAN: And if your team is as passionate as you are, does that mean that some of them are not just working four days too?

TAYLOR: Of course not. But that’s not the expectation. The expectation is never for them to work beyond four. But I tell people, “Hey, you’ve got to get your work done, regardless. So if you need to work Friday, Saturday, Sunday to get it done, then you have to get it done.” And I think my exec team, man, they’re the best, Bob. I love my team. Big squad. It’s a completely new team, and we’re really changing the culture of the company and the product.

The evolution of Kickstarter’s internal culture

SAFIAN: Can you describe what that cultural difference is? What Kickstarter was and what it is and what it will be with that culture?

TAYLOR: I want to say this in the most respectful way possible. Are you a basketball fan, Bob?

SAFIAN: Oh, yeah. I’m a long time Knicks fan, so I’m happy this season.

TAYLOR: Yeah, yeah, they’re great. My boy, Karl Towns, shout out to him. So there was a lot of famous Bobs. There was Bob Cousy, Bob Pettit, amazing players of their time. They would get washed by LeBron and these guys right now, right?

SAFIAN: Yes, sir.

TAYLOR: At that time, they were absolutely incredible. But the game has evolved. The game has to evolve. Things in life will evolve, and if you don’t evolve, then you die. And I think Kickstarter was so novel, so innovative, so ahead of its time. I’m so thankful for our founders, Perry, Yancey, Charles, for what they created. It was a beautiful vision. But where I’m trying to take it is to a new place. I don’t want to be held to what Kickstarter was defined as before, like late pledges, having a pledge manager. We just launched a pledge over time where people can have stretch pay payments. We have all new pre-launch tools helping people before they even start a Kickstarter. So the vision for me is creating this all-in-one platform from before you launch a project, when you launch a project, after you launch a project. We’re giving you all of the tools, all the resources, all the features, all of the audience, everything you need to be successful and come back over and over and over again.

SAFIAN: And internally at Kickstarter, the culture before was like, “Where we are is fine. We don’t have to do these things.” Or was there interest in doing them, but not enough urgency around it?

TAYLOR: I think everyone has their point of view. I came into the company with a different point of view, a point of view of, “Hey, just because things have been this way for the past 13 years does not mean that they have to be this way now.” This is the story of my life. Nobody in my family went to college. We were in a low socioeconomic background, and I looked at my surroundings and I said, “Just because things are the way that they are, doesn’t mean that I have to do those things that way.” And that’s been the story of my life. So I think I brought a new perspective and a new openness.

SAFIAN: I mean, that’s what you were brought in to do too though, right?

TAYLOR: Yeah.

SAFIAN: That’s why they hired you. They wanted that.

TAYLOR: I think so. I think so. I’m still pushing.

SAFIAN: It sounds like they weren’t quite sure what they were getting. They didn’t realize quite what they were getting?

TAYLOR: Well, listen, I was the first time CEO of a company of this scale. They really took a chance on me. They were looking for a super experienced CEO, and they really took a shot on me. And I wish more businesses and more people just take a shot. I’m here to show people that you can look different, you can be different, you can do different things and get great, different results. And we’ve been able to do that at Kickstarter.

Valuing self-awareness in the workplace

SAFIAN: So I wanted to ask you, you said recently that when it comes to assessing your employees, the biggest red flag is a lack of self-awareness. Can you unpack that a little?

TAYLOR: I think that’s the worst in life, whether it’s dating, personal relationships, jobs, et cetera, et cetera. I think it’s really, really important that we are self-aware. It’s important that we know ourselves. We know what we’re capable of. We know our weaknesses. Growth in winning as a company is a team sport. You cannot do it without it. We talked about basketball before. If a guy is bad at shooting three-pointers, you recognize that and you play to the strengths of your team. And that becomes disruptive when someone doesn’t have the self-awareness of what their strengths and weaknesses are. And so I really do look for self-awareness. Because none of us are perfect, but the ability to recognize the imperfections, but also recognize our strengths are very important.

SAFIAN: I could also see that obsessing about self-awareness could be stifling. You don’t want to say the wrong thing. You don’t want to make a mistake. You’re so in your own head. Do you have advice for listeners about how to find a healthy balance between those things, between recognizing what you are and not getting too caught up in it?

TAYLOR: Self-awareness is not about coming down hard on yourself. Self-awareness is just the understanding of areas where you can improve on, you can be better, and the places where you are great. So to me, I use self-awareness in a healthy way where I’m like, “Hey, I know I’m good at these things, and I know where I’m not good. And so I’m going to push someone that can do that way better than me.” But also, it helps me recognize the areas that I need to improve on.

Maintaining audience engagement amidst competition

SAFIAN: So what’s at stake for Kickstarter right now?

TAYLOR: I would say number one is we do have increased competition. We have all these competitors are popping up and things like that, trying to come take shots at the throne. It comes with the territory. Our moat is our audience more than anything. So we need to continue to invest not only in growing that audience, but making that audience more engaged. And I have some ideas, Bob. I have some very cool ideas about engagement.

SAFIAN: But you’re not going to share them yet, huh?

TAYLOR: I can’t share them. Bob, you’ve got to invite me back, man, in a couple years, and you’re going to be like, “Holy crap. I didn’t know.” And I’m like, “See, I told you. It’s coming.”

SAFIAN: Well, let’s do that. Let’s do that. Everette, this was great. Thanks always for sharing. I really appreciate it.

TAYLOR: I appreciate you, Bob. We’ve got to do a Brooklyn hang soon.

SAFIAN: One of the many things I admire about Everette is his focus on the future. He’s not particularly interested in conventions or looking over his shoulder at what others are doing. He wants to create something that’s as fresh as Kickstarter was when it first came on the scene. Most of all, I’m reminded of a tongue-in-cheek leadership adage, “I may be wrong, but I’m never in doubt.” I’m not saying Everette is making the wrong decisions. But whether it’s hiring a diverse executive team or implementing a four-day work week, Everette marches to his own beat. In a world where competition is so intense and others are coming for the throne, as he puts it, that may be the ultimate competitive advantage. I’m Bob Safian. Thanks for listening.