Dara Treseder: You have to opine with the spine, but you got to be careful what you opine on. So you need to pick the thing that truly makes sense for your brand and business. You cannot opine on everything. If you speak about everything, you’re speaking about nothing. And if you end up speaking about things that you have not earned the right to speak about, you don’t have the credibility to speak about, you could end up in some real hot water. But you have to cut through. You want to be in healthy tension, because if there is no tension, there is no greatness. You’re not achieving the outsized commercial outcome. So, how do you get to tension that is healthy, but it must not cross the line into toxic.

Bob Safian: That’s Dara Treseder, Chief Marketing Officer at Autodesk and a recurring guest on Rapid Response. We’re coming to you from the Mecca of marketing, the Cannes Lions Advertising Festival, where top agencies and brands vie for awards and try to close deals. Dara shares this year’s top takeaways among marketing insiders, from creator love to AI buzz, plus why athletes are the new stars, and breakthrough campaigns from Viagra and Vaseline. I’m Bob Safian and this is Rapid Response.

[THEME MUSIC]

I’m Bob Safian, and I’m here with Dara Treseder, the Chief Marketing Officer of Autodesk, and a recurring guest on Rapid Response. Dara, it’s great to see you.

TRESEDER: It’s great to see you, Bob. I love that we are here, together in France.

SAFIAN: Yeah, last year we did an episode about lessons from the Cannes Lions Advertising Festival, and this year we get to do it in person.

TRESEDER: I know. It’s so much more fun to do it in person and do it live.

SAFIAN: So, tell me, this year, are there things that are sparking for you about what you’re hearing people talk about here on the causette?

Cutting through noise without alienating your audience

TRESEDER: Yes, on the causette, a lot is going on. A lot is going on. I will say, there’s a theme, a recurring theme, and I think the theme is really, everyone is trying to figure out, how can I cut through without being cut out? So, how can I cut through without alienating a core part of my audience? Because we’re living in such a polarized time, where there are very few things people can align on. And so there is really that, but we are also in an attention recession, where it’s so difficult to get attention, and getting attention is not enough, because you have to convert that attention into intention, right? To get people to actually go into discovery, consideration, and ultimately purchase. And so there is a little bit of, a lot of the conversations are, how do we figure out how to do this?

SAFIAN: And so, it’s not just getting the attention, but the attention in the way that’s right for your brand.

TRESEDER: Exactly. Getting attention in a way that’s right for your brand and drives action, drives engagement. And now, there’s just so much that grabs people’s attention, so grabbing attention isn’t enough. It’s actually converting the attention into intention, into buyer intent.

SAFIAN: And are there any rules about it, or is it all about each brand has to do that in its own way?

TRESEDER: I think that there’s some themes that we’re seeing about how brands in general are doing this, across all industries, B2B, B2C, healthcare, technology, beauty, retail. We’re seeing some recurring themes. And I think one of the big themes is leaning into creators and community, because people show up for people. They might not necessarily show up for brands in the same way as we’ve seen in the past. So a lot of brands are leaning into, I mean, creators are all over the place. Creators and athletes. Because creators and athletes come with a more dedicated and a more engaged and a more, I’m going to use the word rabid, a little bit, fan base?

SAFIAN: Yes, real fans.

TRESEDER: Real fans, than just celebrities that you see.

SAFIAN: I mean, we’ve been talking for a few years about influencers and how that has sort of changed the marketplace. It sounds a little bit like we’ve sort of broken through to a new layer with that?

The rise of creators and authentic brand partnerships

TRESEDER: We’ve certainly broken through to a new layer. And in fact, they don’t want to be called influencers. They want to be called creators. Because they’re saying, “Hey, I’m not here to just influence. I’m here to co-create with you to drive a certain outcome.” So we’re seeing that happen more now.

SAFIAN: And does that change the relationship that a brand like yours has with a traditional advertising firm? Are you going to creators in a different way?

TRESEDER: It definitely changes, because creators have, I think, they have a lot more say and a lot more power, and they’re taking bigger space at the table. So, gone are the days, I think, where it’s just you find a creator, you tell them exactly what you want to do. If you’re actually trying to drive real results and you want their fans to show up, they’re taking an audience-first approach. So first of all, you’ve got to find that creator that aligns with your values. You’ve got to find that creator that-

SAFIAN: Because giving them license to work with your…

TRESEDER: Exactly.

SAFIAN: So you have to know they agree with you or they’re simpatico in that way before they start.

TRESEDER: There’s got to be trust. That trust has to exist. And the trust goes both ways. You have got to trust that they are aligned to your brand values, they are aligned to your customer base, because remember, you want to cut through, you want to break through, but you are not trying to cut out a big portion of your customer base. So you need to make sure that you have that trust that yes, they are aligned to your brand values, they’re aligned to your purpose, they’re aligned to the outcomes, but then you also have to trust them to give them the space to do what they do. Because it can’t come across as an ad. It has to come across as something more organic, something that they would truly want to do on their own, because that’s when their audience shows up, and that’s what determines the result.

SAFIAN: Are you, in your conversations with your peers, with other CMOs, are you hearing them privately acknowledge like, oh, we didn’t do that quite right? We alienated a group we didn’t want to, or…

Navigating risk and credibility in brand messaging

TRESEDER: 100%, especially in today’s world. I mean, this isn’t anything, no one’s going to come on the podcast. I share this broadly, but as we’re having these private CMO roundtables, we’re all sharing, here’s what went wrong, here’s what went right, here’s what I learned. And a lot of it is just, the margin for error is a lot slimmer than it ever was. There is a very thin line between cutting through and cutting out. It’s a thin line, and it is like walking on high heels on a teeny tiny thread. There is no margin for error. And so, we’re hearing, a lot of CMOs are thinking about, how do I do this and how do I do this well? And really kind of that support structure. And I think one of the things that’s really important is making sure that you have a broad pull at the table as these decisions are being made, and that you are also able to pivot and adjust very quickly.

SAFIAN: I mean, you talked to me previously about this idea of opine with a spine, right?

TRESEDER: Yes.

SAFIAN: That to break through, you have to say something sharp, but you’re also saying that the risk is higher than ever, but you have to take that risk. There’s no way out of this bind.

TRESEDER: There’s no way out. Let me tell you. We got to give CMOs and marketers, all marketers at all levels, we got to give marketers a break. It is a tough world out there. And so, yes, you have to opine with a spine, but you got to be careful what you opine on. So you need to pick the thing that truly makes sense for your brand and business. You cannot opine on everything. If you speak about everything, you’re speaking about nothing. And if you end up speaking about things that you have not earned the right to speak about, you don’t have the credibility to speak about, you could end up in some real hot water that you don’t want to be on. Not the good kind of bath, the scalding kind of bath. So there really is that thoughtfulness that has to go into it.

Healthy tension versus toxic tension in marketing

SAFIAN: Yeah, and you don’t want to be walking back things, which we’ve seen some brands get themselves into, and then the blowback is really bad.

TRESEDER: Yes, yes. And it’s like, but you have to cut through. So it really is that you want to be in healthy tension, not toxic tension. So it’s almost like, but there’s got to be some tension. Because if there is no tension, there is no greatness. You’re not achieving the outsized commercial outcome. So how do you get to tension that is healthy, but it must not cross the line into toxic.

SAFIAN: So the other theme that I’m hearing a lot about here is AI. Of course, you’re hearing about AI everywhere, right?

TRESEDER: Oh, yes.

SAFIAN: But this sort of line between what’s creative, whether AI helps, whether it hurts, how it changes. What are you hearing about how people are thinking about AI and applying it?

TRESEDER: So of course, AI, this is, I think, our third Cannes now where AI continues to be the topic du jour. Hey, have a glass of rose and let’s talk about AI. AI is definitely in almost every conversation that you’re having. And what I would say is, it’s gone from test to scale. So now marketers, advertisers are scaling using AI. But there is a tension. There is a tension, and here is where the tension exists. Creatives want to be in control, because the floor is being raised, but when the floor is being raised for everybody, you are not cutting through if you are at the floor. To cut through, you need to be breaking through that ceiling, and to get to that ceiling, creativity becomes your currency.

So creatives who are excellent at their craft, who’ve honed their craft, who know how to crack through that ceiling, they want to be in control. They want AI to help them, but they don’t want AI to tell them what to do or do it for them. So what that means is, you have gen AI tools that push you into predetermined outcomes. That’s not what the top tier creatives want. What they want is gen AI tools that help them, but give them control.

Autodesk’s FlowStudio AI software

That’s kind of what Autodesk FlowStudio does, where Autodesk FlowStudio is our AI-powered visual effects software. And essentially what it does is, it allows the creatives to use it, because it’s by artists for artists. So this tool was actually created by a visual effects artist and a Hollywood actor, Ty Sheridan. So we have people here who are experts, who are creatives, who said, hey, let’s create an AI tool, gen AI tool that’s going to give us that intellectual horsepower. Because if my seven-year-old can create a video that you could create, your agency is dead. You know what I’m saying? If you are producing the exact same output of work that my seven-year-old Johann who loves tech is able to produce with a gen AI model. He loves making AI little films. If there is no difference between that, you are not going to necessarily get the attention that turns into intention and delivers.

In fact, we did a jobs report that looked at over three million job listings, and what we found is since 2022, that has been a 640% increase in demand for AI skills for technical and non-technical roles. So now, I’m not talking about the things we might expect. Of course, we’re going to expect to see prompt engineers, we’re going to expect to see AI engineers, we’re going to expect to see folks doing things like that. But would you have expected that a brand manager needs to be proficient in AI? Would you have expected a content creator needs to be a master of AI? Would you have expected that a strategist, a marketing strategist, needs to be an expert in AI? We are now seeing that. From January to April, just one quarter, there’s already been a 56% increase in the demand for AI proficiency in all jobs, technical and non-technical roles, across these various, very different-

SAFIAN: Because everybody realizes you got to use it. It’s powerful.

TRESEDER: It’s powerful. Everybody realizes you have to use it. In fact, in my marketing org now, I’m saying I want all my marketers to know how to use AI. So I’m on a mission.

SAFIAN: I talked to a chief technology officer of a big holding company, and he was talking about marketing technology, Martech, which I know is arcane for maybe people who are in the advertising industry, but it’s sort of the automation of certain parts of the ad process. And he’s arguing that AI is going to make the whole industry like, end-to-end Martech basically, from the point of doing research, creating content, figuring out where you’re going to test it, putting it out, getting the results and feeding it back through, and that all that is going to be automated. Do you see that as realistic, or is that like a tech person going overload?

TRESEDER: I do think technology is going to play a role in every aspect of the life cycle. But I think that you have to hone your craft. So I think that there’s going to be a very big difference. I was like, I’m already seeing the difference. I get an email from you, I just chatted with you five minutes ago. You start your email with, “I hope you’re doing well.” I’m like, what are you talking about? You know I’m doing well. That’s it. You know what I mean? You are clearly not someone who took the time to say, hey, let me not just cut and paste from chat GPT, but let me edit this a little bit, right? There’s big…

I’m using this very simple example, but this will show up in marketing materials. There will be a very big difference between those companies that just take out the research the AI just spit out, and those that brought that human excellence, consumer insights, customer insights lens to what they got from AI. That will be a difference. So I think what is going to, yes, AI will be across the entire life cycle of the marketing experience, but what I think is going to happen is also, the gap will be wider, because they’re going to be these super humans who are excellent at what they do, and they have AI helping them, and those people that are just phoning it in and just having AI take us all on a ride.

SAFIAN: AI’s disruption is everywhere, but the marketing and brand world may be feeling the effects faster than most, with shifting structures and new tools poised to change where creativity comes from. So what’s making brands flock to athletes more than ever today, and what’s the secret behind Vaseline and Viagra’s viral ad campaigns? We’ll talk about that and more after the break. Stay with us.

[AD BREAK]

Before the break, Autodesk CMO Dara Treseder shared key lessons from this Cannes Lions advertising festival, including how brands are taking risks today and the rising impact of AI. Now we explore the surging power of sports through the ad world and navigating what Dara calls ROMI, return on marketing investment. Let’s jump back in.

Another theme that I’ve seen here at Cannes is sports, athletes. Do you have an explanation for why that is?

TRESEDER: Absolutely. We are living in a time where, just between the macroeconomic uncertainty, the geopolitical, by the way, this is on a global scale, there are very few things that five people can get in a room around and agree on, and sports is one of them. We may have different teams, but we share a love of the sport. And there is still civility. There’s still joy. There’s still-

Building community and engagement through major events

SAFIAN: Rules, too.

TRESEDER: Rules! There’s still rules. Exactly. So sports has become this language. Sports marketing has always been huge, but sports marketing is bigger than ever. And I will say, even within sports marketing, what is blossoming is also women’s sports. Women’s sports is not having a moment. It is a movement.

So even for us at Autodesk, we became the official design and make platform for the LA ’28 Games because we were like, our audience is over-indexing on sports. And our software, we had earned the right to play in it because our software had been being used to design and make the Games for several different Olympics, but we hadn’t participated in from a marketing perspective, from a brand perspective. And we said for these Games, we wanted to participate in.

And coming back to opine with a spine, the LA ’28 Games will be the most sustainable Games ever. We’re working to have no new permanent venue. So usually when you design and make and bring Olympic Games to life there, you could make the city better than you find it, or you could leave it worse than you find it, when you make these ghost towns. We want to leave LA better than we find it. We’re a global company, but we’re headquartered in America, and we are headquartered California. So for us, bring it. There is so much joy and pride. It’s home. It is like, the Olympics are coming home. So to be a part of delivering not only the most sustainable games ever, but doing it in a way that’s going to leave LA a more resilient city, a smarter city, a greener city, a more sustainable city, wow. It’s like the things that we’re so excited about.

And guess what? You might not agree in a bunch of things, but all our customers are excited about the Olympics. Everybody’s excited about sports, and that’s why we’re seeing so many athletes. I was walking in my hotel, it’s like, everybody’s seven feet. Travis Kelce, Jason Kelce! You’re seeing athletes just all over, and I think it’s because again, that fandom. People, they love their athletes. So if the athlete authentically connects with your product and you authentically can bring that athlete in, it’s unlike anything you’ve ever done before.

And for women’s sports, it even goes a level deeper. So you’re seeing other CMOs, other marketers use the same thing, where they’re using sports as a way to bring everybody around the table, and then we can then talk about what really matters to each of those different audiences.

SAFIAN: The opening ceremonies last time around, didn’t they get recognized here?

TRESEDER: They absolutely got more than recognized. They won a Grand Prix. It’s not every day you see the Olympics opening ceremony winning a Grand Prix. And I think what made the Paris Olympics so different this year was, they leaned into that theme we were talking about, about content and community, and leaning into creators. So unlike the everyday Olympics, where it was just about watching it on TV, they realized the power was in empowering these athletes from all over the world to sort of share and bring their audience in, and wow. So the amount of people who consumed the Olympic ceremony went way beyond people watching it on TV, to people consuming so much on social media, and that made that Olympic ceremony so much bigger than it was.

ROMI: Return on Marketing Investment

SAFIAN: So you’ve talked with me before about the idea of ROMI, return on marketing investment.

TRESEDER: Yes.

SAFIAN: So as you look out at the landscape here at Cannes this year, and where the marketplace is overall, do you have advice, lessons for our audience about how to optimize for ROMI, for return on marketing investment?

TRESEDER: Absolutely. I think first of all, you have to be authentic. In this attention recession we are in, where people are inundated with stuff, it is very difficult to get attention. And then, getting attention, you’ve got to convert that attention to intention. Authenticity is the only way, and you are not authentic. If your brand is not real, people can smell that a mile away, and they’re just really going to walk away. When people smell inauthenticity, nothing makes them run faster. And so, being authentic is really important.

Then you got to have a spine, you got to be brave. You have to take those risks. Creativity is our currency. We have to take those risks. You have to be brave. When I look at some of the work that I’m excited about, that’s been winning awards this season, they’ve taken risks. They’ve done things that not everyone does. For example, Vaseline Verified, I don’t know if you’ve heard about that campaign. It’s like Vaseline hacks. Some of the hacks were people eating Vaseline. That is not verified. Do not eat Vaseline.

But there are other, they were able to kind of bring in UGC content in an authentic way. But that was a risk that they took doing something that everyone hasn’t done before, but that allowed them to not only drive incredible, something that’s creative and entertaining, but drive incredible commercial results. I was talking with Esi, their chief growth and marketing officer, and it was interesting to hear just how commercially successful that was. That was taking a risk. You can’t, no risk, no reward.

SAFIAN: I heard you talking before about the Viagra ad. I have not seen this ad. So tell me, what’s the buzz on this?

TRESEDER: So this ad, it has been an ad that has gone viral, and it won a Grand Prix, and talk about being brave and taking risks. The campaign was Make Love Last by Viagra, and the ad is really, it is a film of blurred, intimate moment to music, and that’s the entire campaign. But it was incredibly, I guess people were sharing this. But guess what? It cut through, and it got through their core positioning. Make Love Last. So they were able to get through their core value proposition. They had that line, and they didn’t cross it, but there’s some tension in that, right? There is some tension in that. And they won the Grand Prix here, and it drove incredible commercial results.

So that’s the thing here I’m seeing, where brands are taking risks to drive commercial results. And people don’t always understand that. If you don’t work in marketing and advertising, you’re probably wondering, why are they taking these creative risks? Why can’t they just make a boring video with predetermined outcomes using AI? And the reality is, you need to take those risks to drive the commercial success, I mean, and I would definitely say Viagra took some risks with that Make Love Last video. I won’t be sending you that video from my work computer, but Bob, you could go Google that. Google Make Love Last. It definitely is an interesting ad.

SAFIAN: But it sounds like, whether you’re Viagra or you’re Vaseline, don’t be afraid to lean into what your product is actually for, right? Enough with the euphemisms a little bit?

TRESEDER: Exactly. This is the season of being on the nose. This is the season of being literally on the nose. Tell us what it’s about, and don’t be afraid to tell us in a cheeky way, or don’t be afraid to tell us in a creative way.

And I would say, the last thing is be consistent. So this comes back to the opine with a spine. For us, our purpose is to design and make a better world. I don’t know, the people listening, all of you have, your brands have different purposes, different mission. Whatever is core to that mission, don’t walk away from that. Be consistent, because things come and go. Trends come and go, but purpose remains forever.

SAFIAN: Well, Dara, as always, it is great to talk with you.

TRESEDER: Oh, thank you so much.

SAFIAN: Thank you for doing this. This has been great.

TRESEDER: Thank you. This is a ton of fun. Bob and Dara, live from Cannes.

SAFIAN: Dara is always engaging, but it may be her edict to opine with a spine that most resonates with me right now. Business leaders are so uneasy in 2025 about bumping into issues that might be divisive. They’re trying to keep their heads down. Yet, to break through in the marketplace, you have to tap into culture to show relevance when so much is shifting around us. As Dara stresses, that means being clear about the values that drive our businesses, where we have credibility to speak, and are prepared to be committed, even if there’s some blowback. It takes some courage, but that’s what’s needed, not only to have brand impact in the marketplace, but to ensure that business plays a critical role in the future. We want to see. I’m Bob Safian. Thanks for listening.