Historic changes across high fashion

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SARAH BALL: It is a huge month, and it’s been on the calendar circled in red. I am incredibly excited to see what happens at Chanel. Also looking with huge interest to Dior. These shows are enormous productions, so they are five, 6 million euros to pull off for three to 400 guests. If a creative director hasn’t found their footing or sales are struggling, you’ll see them replaced. Pain tolerance is low when there is an unstable overall economic environment.

BOB SAFIAN: That’s Sarah Ball, editor in chief of the Wall Street Journal’s WSJ Magazine. As the fashion world navigates an unprecedented wave of turnover, from Chanel to Dior, I wanted to talk to Sarah about the most closely watched New York Fashion Week in years, what she calls a September to remember. Sarah takes us inside the drama and anticipation, what’s at stake and what to look for, plus how Vogue is poised to take shape post-Anna Wintour, the shock waves from Giorgio Armani’s recent passing, AI’s impact on fashion creatives and more. Whether or not you self-identify as a fashionista, Sarah offers a guide to an industry that ripples through commerce at large which is at a historic turning point, so let’s get to it. I’m Bob Safian, and this is Rapid Response.

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I’m Bob Safian. I’m here with Sarah Ball, editor in chief of WSJ Magazine. Sarah, thanks for being here.

BALL: Oh, I’m so thrilled to be here, Bob. Thank you for having me.

Copy LinkA “September to remember” for fashion

SAFIAN: We are speaking in the midst of New York Fashion Week, a key moment in the fashion industry calendar, but there are so many fashion weeks these days, around the world, across the country. Is there something that makes this one distinctive?

BALL: There’s a huge thing that makes this thing distinctive, and in fact it’s almost I think close to a dozen things that make this year distinctive, and that is the number of new creative directors that are being appointed at brands around the world. This is considered the, quote-unquote, “September to remember” in fashion, a huge sea change of designers, and that’s not just, oh, people are sprucing creative and next gen is coming in. It really is a remarkable and historic number of changes of leadership that represents fashion heading into ever more uncertain economic times, and really making sure that creative is incredibly fine-tuned.

Kering, in addition to having several new creative directors take over some of their brands, also has a new CEO who starts on Monday and who spoke this week for the first time officially in the capacity as CEO, alluding to changes that are ahead for all of those brands. Those include Gucci and Balenciaga and Alexander McQueen and other Kering brands. So it is a huge year, a huge month, and it’s been on the calendar circled in red for at least nine months, so it’s that drumbeat as well of anticipation of so many exciting debuts, and we’ll see what’s in store.

SAFIAN: So this transitional moment is all coming to a head for this fashion week.

BALL: Correct, correct. We’re going to see I think close to a dozen collections as revamped through new creative directors’ eyes, and again, what that means is that brands are fine-tuning their market position. Who is the customer? What do they want? Right now, we’re coming out of a bit of the quiet luxury emphasis on inoffensive, expensive craftsmanship. We have returned to a sort of explosive creativity, we’ve returned to color, but at the business level, I think what you’re seeing is a true next generation. Almost all of these new creative directors are in their early forties, so they’re older millennials. You have places like Chanel, that have only had four creative directors in their entire history, are trying in their appointment of Matthieu Blazy to have the next Karl Lagerfeld, someone who’s going to be in that role for decades and decades.

So it has higher stakes than a simple… To use a sports analogy, the way that there’s a head coach shuffle at the end of a season say, this is a much higher stakes version of that to have so many changing over at one time, and really rooted in fashion brands, and beyond that, fashion conglomerates, luxury conglomerates trying to weather these uncertain macroeconomic conditions.

Copy LinkWhat’s behind this transitional moment for fashion?

SAFIAN: This transitional moment, how much of it is about the state of style of the designers versus this larger economics and these externalities in a lot of ways?

BALL: I think they’re both related and it all ties into consumer confidence and where consumers are going to spend their money now. I think you see some categories that are still incredibly important and explosive in growth. Jewelry, accessories, these things have a resilience to them, especially through up and down times. I think with pure fashion, with ready-to-wear, that can be more challenged, and I think you do see brands trying to assess what the customer is going to want, not only in trend cycles have gotten so short with TikTok and social media.

A trend cycle is really quite brief now, so it’s both become a more aggressive game of hopping lily pad to lily pad and also more consequential because, again, there is uncertainty in that pond. To extend the metaphor, there’s little white caps and waves. And then also to your point, style has become much more expressive. We’re showing what we’re wearing. We’re always on camera at work, we’re on camera off work in this vertical video world that we live in, and then there are important conversations that influence styles such as sustainability and people who want to reduce waste. So there’s all of this swirl of factors.

Before coming to the Wall Street Journal, I worked for a long time at Conde Nast, I worked at GQ, so I was very embedded in men’s style discussions, and that really is a group that likes to just be told, how can I very seamlessly, quickly and easily buy something and have it and always be able to rely on it? But at the same time, it was always playing more and more and wanting to be more expressive and challenge notions of conventional suit and tie masculinity. So you see the way that menswear has exploded and changed over the last five, 10 years, you have seen these trend cycles are becoming more and more brief, so I think style has changed, the conditions have changed, and brands are now just trying to respond to that.

Copy LinkThe Fashion Week shows you don’t want to miss

SAFIAN: As you’ve got this date circled in red on your calendar, are there any particular shows that you’re most focused on, that you’re like, I got to be there?

BALL: Yes, I think there’s a couple. I am incredibly excited to see what happens at Chanel. Again, I think of an appointment, Matthieu Blazy was appointed. I believe he’s 41 years old. He previously was the creative director at Bottega Veneta and really revived that brand through craftsmanship, a sense of play, especially of using the house codes of leather, and it’s very famous, as you may know, for woven leather, basket woven leather. He used that and subverted that and made incredibly interesting collections that were very sought after. And now he comes to a house with a ton of heritage and legacy in Chanel that has a ton of these house codes established in the twenties by Coco Chanel. It’s considered maybe the biggest and highest pressure job in all of fashion, is to run Chanel in Paris, so that’s got every Hollywood element to be glued to what he’ll do.

And then I’m also looking with huge interest to Dior. Dior will be now run, both the men’s and women’s sides of that business, and couture will be run for the first time by one person. In the past, they’ve been run by multiple creative directors. Now they’re united under one person who’s Jonathan Anderson. He is known for taking the small, relatively inconsequential brand of Loewe at LVMH and growing it into a multiple billion euro business for the Arnault family. He’s seen as such a superstar talent, very interested in sculpture and art, and really grew that business into this massive… It is the cool kid. So he grew that into the cool kid of LVMH and then was given the crown jewel job of taking over Dior.

He’s had one collection already, a men’s show where he really dabbled in 18th century motifs. If you can imagine French Revolution frock coats and cravats, but married with slouchy jeans and a really playful, humorous, very fresh, modern look. And it’s, again, a huge high-stakes position. This is an enormous business, and he’ll be leading it forward through, again, tropes that he has to pull for himself. Dior’s actual fashion history is pretty brief. It was founded in 1946. It is not 400 years old, it didn’t exist at the time of Les Miserables frock coats, so he’s really pulling out of art and history as he’s wont to do. He’s got an incredible network, the filmmaker Luca Guadagnino, and really interesting actors and actresses and authors, Adi Smith and Greta Lee and Daniel Craig and Rachel Weisz. This is his world of talented friends that he brings with him. So I think he’s going to build a whole new set of references for Dior, and I’m very excited to see what that yields.

Copy LinkMeasuring success at major fashion houses

SAFIAN: For these houses, whether it’s Chanel or Dior, the other ones, how do they know whether their show has been successful? Is it what folks like you say about it? Is it things that come out from influencers? How do they know?

BALL: It’s a great, great question. I think that you can immediately feel the energy. So there’s standing ovations, there’s cheering, there’s whooping if it’s a real triumph or success. Usually it’s quite a decorous crowd, lots of clapping and people take videos and immediately share snippets from the show. These shows are enormous productions, so they are five, 6 million euros to pull off for three to 400 guests. There’s music, it’s dark, you’re sometimes transported. In many cases, you’ve been transported to a particularly magical setting, just this real atmosphere that you’re instantly aware of as a guest at a show. Those in the audience are not just editors or VIP celebrity guests. They’re also clients, VICs, very important clients who are there as a customer, as a passionate collector really is probably a better way to describe them, a collector of this artist’s work, and you can of course see in them a level of enthusiasm.

And then how it’s then shared out to the world is the collection immediately, it appears on fashion news sites, it appears across social media, TikTok, vertical video moments that happen. How are people sharing those? It’s a whole ecosystem of reaction. And then of course, a few days after a show, a designer and the brand are meeting with buyers, and those buyers, again, who are present at the show are saying, “We’d like to order these. We’d like these modifications, or this is what our customers want. How can we meet in the middle on this?” And you’ll get a sense from those meetings and conversations, the salability so to speak to put it in less exciting creative terms, but how is this collection going to filter out through to the customer? I think there’s a variety of metrics that companies are using to test success, but I would say the most instant assessment is frankly applause. It’s just that metric of huge enthusiasm.

SAFIAN: Even though these fashion weeks are happening all the time, it’s still about the buzz that you can generate each time.

BALL: Correct, correct. And that buzz can translate into immediate covetability of items that come down. A fresh silhouette, a new accessory or shoe that’s shown, that buzz can translate into real commercial firepower for certain components. That buzz can translate into, okay, this collection was a designer finding their footing, but we’re overall really enthusiastic about it, akin to the way you might buy and sell stocks. You’re hearing good things, you want to invest in this company. You can get a sense of how a designer is going to match with the brand codes, with the house codes, how they might develop over time. Not every debut is a smash hit instantaneously. Sometimes it takes a few seasons, but by the same token, after a few seasons, if a creative director hasn’t found their footing or sales are struggling, you’ll see them replaced, and I think those cycles have gotten shorter as well. I think pain tolerance is low when there is an unstable overall economic environment.

SAFIAN: The fashion industry has always fascinated me. Like any other business, fashion is beholden to financial metrics, but it also feeds off of buzz. So how is social media and social buying impacting that buzz machine, and what should we expect from Anna Wintour’s successor at Vogue? We’ll talk about that and more after the break. Stay with us.

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Before the break, WSJ Magazine’s Sarah Ball shared how New York Fashion Week reveals an inflection point in the fashion business. Now, Sarah talks about the passing of Giorgio Armani, the ascension of a new editor at Vogue, and the role of social influencers as taste makers. Let’s dive back in.

Copy LinkThe rise of social influencers and shifting tastemakers

Social influencers play a bigger role now in every industry, including fashion. How do you look at the role of influencers in the industry? Are taste makers coming from new places?

BALL: That’s a great question. So I think initially, this, quote-unquote, “democratization” maybe of fashion shows started when street style bloggers would set up outside of shows. This was at this point 15 years ago at the rise of fashion blogs, when maybe traditional glossy fashion media was on the slower side to embrace having a lively digital presence. And then you saw some of those fashion bloggers become invited to shows and sitting in the front row, and that represented at the time this great pearl clutching moment in fashion media that, “Oh my goodness, it’s no longer closed to just editors and buyers and clients.”

I think today, in my mind, even though they’re quite different and working at the Wall Street Journal is so different than being a fashion influencer, I think that in the minds of these brands, it’s now press and influence. You’ll notice even people who work at fashion brands, vice president of press and influence. Press and influence in their mind are joined, and that is external comms as furthered by inclusion in fashion press and media, as well as furthered by influencers.

Now, how we work is very different. Fashion media as expressed now very robustly through digital, through site and app and social, we use the clothes, the accessories, the jewelry, the product. You’re looking at a photo right behind me of Kylie Jenner and Martin Scorsese. They’re wearing beautiful luxury fashion that we put on them and styled and shot them in incredible locations, so there is the side of fashion media that continues to profile designers. We have our September men’s and women’s issues that are out right now, including these clothes and ambitious work, talking about what they’re putting out in the marketplace. An influencer is not doing that. An influencer is wearing the product, is showing up to talk about the product, and is much more speaking as a proxy for the consumer in, “Here I am. It’s so fun. Oh my gosh, I’m seated next to Sophia Coppola at the Chanel show. Look how beautiful she looks.” It’s the fan experience, I would say.

It’s obviously a huge part of fashion brands, having them represented at shows and choosing who the right influencers are for your brand. I can’t think of a single fashion brand whose show I’ve been to where there was absolutely zero presence from someone who would be considered a content creator or an influencer, even the most elite and exclusive fashion shows.

Copy LinkVogue’s editorial transition and the legacy of Anna Wintour

SAFIAN: As a former magazine editor myself, I was intrigued that Vogue finally named a successor to Anna Wintour as editor Chloe Malle. Vogue’s been like the Bible for fashion under Anna’s reign. How significant is this transition for the industry, and what does Chloe need to do to grab that alpha tastemaker reputation?

BALL: I love her. I’m very proud of her and very excited for her. She’s an old friend and a dynamo, fiercely talented, and my favorite thing about her is her sense of humor. So I know that even the challenge of taking on this incredible job she will bear with a lot of wit and playfulness, which is something that I hope to see expressed in her Vogue. I’ve definitely seen it expressed in her vogue.com. I think Anna’s reputation as a tastemaker, I think the Conde has been very strategic in underlining that Anna is still very involved as a tastemaker and not just over Vogue, but I think over all of those brands.

I think Anna’s role as tastemaker still remains intact, and I think Chloe gets to put her stamp on the execution and still set the taste and agenda of what Vogue is. I know she has big ideas for how it shows up in the world, but I think she views it as an asset that she’s not necessarily forfeiting Anna’s presence to help her with navigating the overall fashion industry. I think that’s the right attitude. I think fashion is bigger and more challenging and more complex and more global than ever, and many hands make light work, I would say.

Copy LinkRapid fire round

SAFIAN: So I want to ask you a few quick hit questions in the couple of minutes we have left. AI: Vogue recently featured a guest ad with an AI generated model that sparked some debates. AI, net negative or net positive for fashion?

BALL: Oh, remains to be seen. Incredibly interesting ways it’s being applied, mining archives for new ideas that then can be riffed on by human creativity, how they show up to the customer, and of course all of the data and logistics that AI will make a lot easier. So I’m sure net positive for efficiency, neutral on creativity.

SAFIAN: All right. Dupes, the rise and normalization of dupes, including this craze around Labubu. How does that impact the industry? Does it help build connection with new audiences or just make things more complicated for brands?

BALL: I think it makes things more complicated for brands. As is, it forces a ton of transparency from brands that they’re not used to giving. I think there’s the idea that customers don’t want to know about how it gets to them. We’re going to tell them it’s sustainable and we’re going to emphasize that we use the best materials, but there’s a lot of nuts and bolts they maybe don’t need to know. They just want to go in, have the glass of champagne, feel the bag, purchase the bag and go home. I think that’s out the window. I think the customer is really prizing traceability, provenance. Tell me how it was made well. I think customers genuinely are interested in these because of the rise of these videos on TikTok that show superfakes being made easily in China, et cetera. I think that’s given them a lot of fear that we have to emphasize how our products are so much better in order to justify these huge five figure if not six figure prices.

SAFIAN: I want to ask you about live stream shopping. This is a new phenomenon for me. So part social media, part QVC. Huge in Asia, maybe starting to take off in the U.S.

BALL: I absolutely think it will continue to grow. I think even just, this isn’t live stream, but even the rise of hauls, to go far beyond the small corners of YouTube to now we had a story published this week about the ways in which back-to-school hauls of tweens and teenagers showing their back-to-school shopping and taking you along for the journey of what they’re shopping for back-to-school is now so much the norm that it’s driving up the cost of going back to school for families and creating this whole sub genre of content that feels ubiquitous and inescapable and you have to participate. So I think that’s going to continue for sure.

SAFIAN: The industry needs to access and animate Gen Z buyers, right? They are future customers as time goes by, and this is one of the ways to do that.

BALL: I think so, and I think that again, it challenges these traditional notions for luxury brands that are used to not only would you not necessarily be filming inside of the store, you still have people at the door gatekeeping who even gets in your store, and then in the case of some luxury brands, you’re limited on what product you can access unless you’ve built up a history as a customer with that store. So I think the luxury industry is used to being really closed off and dare I say gatekeepy, but the live stream experience is radical, radical transparency. So I think you’re going to see these forces at loggerheads for a little bit, but absolutely engaging younger customers in the fact that shopping can be an adventure and a journey, I think it could be net positive for luxury brands if they’re able to adapt to that.

Copy LinkThe future of Armani and luxury brand succession

SAFIAN: Giorgio Armani, iconic designer, brand builder, recently passed away. His will apparently puts Armani group for sale. What do you see happening here?

BALL: I think this is so fascinating and is going to be one of the most interesting stories in fashion, I would probably guess over the next year. So obviously, he was CEO, sole shareholder and creative director of the brand. It’s not just even the ownership of such an enormous, again, multi-billion euro luxury brand that’s up for sale. It’s also its entire direction because he did not have any heirs. There was not this airtight succession plan that you maybe see over at LVMH with all of the Arnaud children taking bits and pieces of the brand and steeping themselves in how it’s run with their father. This was not the case with Armani, so I think this will throw some chaos into the landscape.

It’s a huge prize. It has many, many businesses. There’s of course the men’s and women’s businesses, there’s Prive, which is all of your Oscar dresses. There’s Casa, there’s a hospitality element and hotels, there’s fragrance and beauty, and so it’s just enormous. And I think this bidding war for who gets the keys to the literal castle is going to be all I’m hearing about when we’re over in Europe for fashion week hearing fashion gossip.

SAFIAN: I asked earlier about tastemakers. You are also a tastemaker. Do you have any predictions for what you see ahead for the fashion industry?

BALL: I couldn’t have predicted that we would whipsaw from talking about COVID recovery to talking about tariffs to talking about AI. I think the climate is so uncertain, so I think my biggest prediction, I know this is quite pat, but I truly believe it, that charm and creativity will win the day. I think the customer is feeling a little jerked around and nervous and scared, and I think that the collections that we see, the more someone is able to harness a positive outlook, beautiful and inspiring work, and not maybe your Zoolander cliche of the dark, black austerity steering into the mood. I think that charm and covetability in that really classic sense is what the customer’s craving, almost comfort if you will, and that I hope it yields some really frisky, creative, exciting work.

SAFIAN: Well, Sarah, this was great. Thanks so much for doing it.

BALL: Thank you for having me. It’s been a true pleasure.

SAFIAN: Some applause for Sarah for making fashion’s rarefied world so accessible. I find her observation about consumers’ desire for comfort particularly applicable, whatever business you’re in. With geopolitical and macroeconomic uncertainty sparking volatility across every industry, customers everywhere are looking for a safe haven, something warm and reassuring. So as we begin to feel the chill of fall in some places and oversaturation of pumpkin spice, I urge you to consider how you radiate that feeling of warmth and safety to your customers, to your audience, and to your team. We can all use that sense of togetherness these days. I’m Bob Safian, thanks for listening.