To survive your entrepreneurial journey, you have to learn to recharge. In fact, knowing when to turn the lights out may be key to keeping the lights on. But you have to know when and HOW to refuel. Few know this better than Arianna Huffington, who dramatically scaled the Huffington Post — and then experienced profound physical burnout. Her venture Thrive Global now scales the idea of balance across an organization.

Early-stage startups are a lot like pirate ships – they need a buccaneering spirit to survive. But every startup needs to shed its pirate nature at some point, and evolve into something more akin to a navy – no less heroic, but more disciplined. Dara Khosrowshahi, as Uber CEO, took on the most extreme pirate-to-navy transition in startup history. Though Uber blitzscaled to become the most valuable startup in the world, it was also notorious for its toxic culture – and Dara turned the company around. His method? Truth-telling and doing the right thing. Cameo appearances: Arianna Huffington (Thrive Global) and Ben Chestnut (Mailchimp).

We’re back with season four — and part two of our turning the tables episode with Reid Hoffman. (If you missed part one, go listen now!) In this episode, we follow Reid through PayPal, LinkedIn (and Microsoft’s acquisition), and Greylock, and catch up him as host of Masters of Scale — all the while proving our theory that you can chart an epic journey to scale if you make everyone a heron along the way. Hosted by June Cohen, executive producer of Masters of Scale and CEO of WaitWhat.