KELLY CAMPBELL: The Olympics performed so well for us, the viewership, that we saw that was record breaking on streaming with 20 billion minutes of viewership. That’s more than every prior Olympics combined. I think we’re at a pivotal moment for Peacock where we’re breaking through in culture, and we need to continue the momentum of bringing new people in. We need them to open the Peacock app, not because of a specific event or title, but because of a belief that there’s so much more there. 

BOB SAFIAN: That’s Kelly Campbell, President of NBC’s streaming service, Peacock. With its much-watched coverage of the Paris Olympics and this summer’s other cultural craze, Love Island, Peacock is hitting its stride as the streaming industry overall faces a new inflection point. I wanted to talk to Kelly amid the shifting competition to understand how Peacock and NBC are working to leverage each other, to buttress so-called linear TV and also steal streaming views from the likes of Netflix, Disney+, and even Youtube. The business model of streamers keeps evolving, with new pricing, a new uneasiness about the cost of premium original programming and an increased emphasis on live sports. Kelly says that even legacy media needs to embrace an experimental test-and-learn approach, like mixing Snoop Dogg and Alex Cooper into Olympics coverage. Oh, and if you’re worried that new streaming bundles are looking more and more like the old cable TV system, well, Kelly says, you’re not exactly wrong. The streaming wars, it turns out, are as hot as ever. I’m Bob Safian, and this is Rapid Response. 

I’m Bob Safian. I’m here with Kelly Campbell, the President of Peacock. Kelly, thanks for joining us. Thank you for having me.

Inside Peacock’s big moment

SAFIAN: So are you still basking in the glow of the Olympics? 

CAMPBELL: Peacock is certainly having a moment right now, and, you know, you can kind of feel that. It’s palpable. Which is very exciting. I have people from all walks of life reaching out, from my teenage aged nieces and nephews, to my parents and their friends, neighbors, former colleagues. And it’s exciting. You know, it’s been in the works for a while, certainly. The Olympics have played a big role, but we’ve had a great run, you know, for the past couple years. Fastest growing streamer, big breakout originals. So we’ve kind of known it all along, but as you sort of point out, you know, others are catching on. And so we’re going to bask a little, but stay focused on what’s ahead as well. 

SAFIAN: Do you have particularly memorable moments yourself from Paris, like were you hanging out with Snoop and Kevin Hart and Kenan Thompson or Alex Cooper? 

CAMPBELL: There were a number of big moments. Snoop was certainly a hit. He did a little impromptu performance at a party we had to launch our NBA partnership. You know, one of the highlights for me was the studio tour, just to sort of see our teams in action from, you know, Mike Tirico and Savannah and Hoda to our teams that are behind the scenes making it all work. And of course the studio was set up right behind the beach volleyball. So you’ve got the view of beach volleyball and the Eiffel Tower, which was incredible. 

SAFIAN: That was a beautiful spot. Amazing. 

CAMPBELL: Oh, it was gorgeous. Yeah, we’ve got our work cut out for us with LA in ‘28, which is where I’m based here. But no shortage of beautiful places. But you’re not going to get the Eiffel Tower, you know, so yeah. But the athletes too. I mean, these athletes are incredible and so stopping by Team USA and getting to talk to some of the athletes who are just such an inspiration was really cool. I was like a fan, you know, “can I take a picture with you?” It’s really cool.

Peacock’s coverage of the Paralympics

SAFIAN: Are you going back for the Paralympics? Like, it looks like there’s a similar breadth of coverage for Peacock with all the events and Gold Zone and so on. But is that expensive given that smaller audience? So you just sort of leave in place what you had for the Olympics and you leverage that?

CAMPBELL: The team will still be in place, and we’re super excited for the Paralympics to kick off next week, August 28th, and we’ve got Gold Zone and multiview, which were like the breakout fan favorites on Peacock for watching the Olympics, coming back for the Paralympics, so it’ll all be there.

Plans to keep the momentum going

SAFIAN: The challenge after a big success is always like keeping the momentum going, right? How much are you expecting from the Paralympics? Or like now that Premier League soccer started up or the NFL season is coming that like, the focus is even further out?

CAMPBELL: You know, it’s both. There are teams who are extremely focused on the Paralympics right now that really barely got a break between the Olympics and the Paralympics. But we also are extremely focused on what’s coming, you know, when you bring together our football coverage across the NFL, Big 10, Big East, Notre Dame, like we’ve got a pretty incredible lineup starting with Thursday night of Kickoff Weekend. Then on Friday, we have an exclusive NFL game that will be only available on Peacock. That’s the Friday night game that’s taking place in Brazil. 

But we get to use moments like those to launch entertainment content as well. So Fight Night is a show that we are super excited about that will sort of launch out of that momentum. We promoted it during the olympics so, you know consumers and fans are starting to get excited about it. And then we’ll get to launch it out of this moment. 

SAFIAN: It’s like Peacock is a version of ESPN. Is ESPN in some ways a competitive model or opportunity? 

CAMPBELL: And so much more. Sports play a really critical role. Sports are a great hook to bring people in, but even with the live sports, you know, people who come in, like we call our sort of ‘sports cohort’ or ‘sports-first’ audience — people who come in and the first thing they watch is a live sporting event. We typically see that nine out of ten of their next titles are entertainment titles.

So, sports play a really powerful role as a hook, but then once we get people in and we can sort of uncover everything else that’s on Peacock from, you know, our original series, we have a super expansive library, we’ve got all of Universal’s films right after theaters. So sports play a big role as an anchor, but it’s so much more than sports. It’s really that mix of entertainment content with sports that sets Peacock apart in this market.

SAFIAN: So it’s more like the Disney bundle with ESPN and Hulu and Disney+ together?

CAMPBELL: That’s a good way to think about it. It’s like people are starting to get it, you know? I don’t have to explain to everyone what Peacock is. I can just say ‘Peacock.’ It doesn’t have to be a disclaimer — ‘NBC Universal streaming service, a mix of next day content from NBC and Bravo and the library content.’ It’s like people are really, are really getting it. 

Balancing programming on Peacock

SAFIAN: Well, the Olympics wasn’t the only big Peacock event this summer, right? Like Love Island was a phenomenon. Did that surprise you? Like, do you see reality shows as a particular opportunity for streaming? 

CAMPBELL: I mean, Love Island has literally become pop culture currency this summer. Fans can’t get enough. I mean, I’ll tell you what surprised me: When my 16 year old nephew and his five friends last weekend at the beach, they told me, “Oh, oh, you’re at Peacock? Well, Peacock’s now our favorite streaming service!” And they’re watching Love Island. These are like 16 year old boys, you know, who play volleyball and ride their e-bikes, and that’s what they’re doing. And then I said, “all right, what else do you watch?” And then they’re like, “oh, oh, and NFL and Premier League!” So again, it’s like, depending on what hooks you, you know, you come in and it’s an opportunity, but also like incumbent on us to surface the right content for the right people. 

SAFIAN: When you think about the sort of, the balance of programming, the breadth of programming that you focus on for Peacock, like, do you sort of adapt and respond to your offerings based on NBC’s priorities or sometimes Peacock’s priorities and data impacting NBC’s lineup decisions? Like how does that interaction work?

CAMPBELL: We work incredibly closely together. The Olympics are a great way to kind of showcase this or bring it to life a little bit because the Olympics performed so well for us across linear and streaming. So, the viewership that we saw was record breaking on streaming with 20 billion minutes of viewership. That’s more than every prior Olympics combined when it comes to streaming. But the good news is that was a success, additive to what we were seeing on our linear networks, which was really a big win for the company and took a lot of thoughtful planning. There was deep conviction in this idea of making Peacock truly the streaming home of the Olympics. That meant. we had to agree to put everything on Peacock: all of the medal rounds, all of the events. But what we saw is that consumers were coming in and they were watching this incredibly well-produced content from NBC Sports that was on NBC Primetime, they were watching it on linear, they were watching it on Peacock. It really was, I think, the finest demonstration of what’s possible as we move into the future with streaming. When you bring content and sort of product experience together, it’s truly a collaboration.

SAFIAN: Are there choices or things that sometimes you see working on Peacock that then makes NBC say, ‘Oh, maybe we should think about doing that differently on the linear programming?’

CAMPBELL: Sure. We’re constantly testing — ‘Okay, this show, here’s how it’s performing on this network or on Peacock. Do we think that there’s an audience on the flip, whether it’s a Peacock show on linear or linear on Peacock. Do we think that one of the other platforms could serve as a powerful promotional vehicle, just to get people in and then maybe they’ll come to the other place to watch the rest of the series? Or do we think there’s actually an audience for the show that exists across platforms?’ So I think we’re seeing more of that throughout the industry as well. But we’re certainly testing the waters there.

Do Emmys define success for Peacock?

SAFIAN: You mentioned some of the original programming. The Emmys are just a few weeks away. Peacock shows have, if I have it right, nine nominations. Is that right? Congratulations. 

CAMPBELL: Ten now. 

SAFIAN: Ten!

CAMPBELL: One more with In The Know, which is an animated series.

SAFIAN: So I’m curious, how much do awards like the Emmys define success in a year for a streamer? Does it have a practical impact or is it sort of like, ‘yeah, that’s great. Thanks a lot.’ And then, you know, onto the next business thing? 

CAMPBELL: They certainly matter. We’re really excited about Peacock’s showing. It’s, you know, a relatively young streaming service. And it’s a big deal, but it’s not one of those things that you’re necessarily going to measure for through a specific data point. It matters with consumer perception, and it also matters in the industry with talent seeing us really commit to launching high quality shows hat can bring home nominations and ultimately awards. It matters in the industry and it helps us attract talent to work with.

Is Peacock competing with YouTube?

SAFIAN: Your background is from Silicon Valley. You worked at Google. So you’re familiar with a little platform called YouTube. How do you think about YouTube relative to the streaming competition? They’re not tied to a network, but they are a default, particularly for many younger generation viewers. 

CAMPBELL: Yeah, look, it’s a different type of content. So, I think the reasons to turn on YouTube are different from the reasons you might open Peacock or any streaming service. I mean I certainly think of them as a competitor when it comes to share of time — which is ultimately the game that we’re all playing. When it comes to attracting, you know, the best creators and putting the best sort of premium content out in the market, our competitive set differs. 

How does Peacock’s movie deals impact theatrical releases?

CAMPBELL: Do movies play into the YouTube competition? Now, you have a deal with Universal to stream movies not long after their theatrical release. 

CAMPBELL: It’s more of a competitive differentiator for us in the streaming space because we get that first window directly after theaters exclusively.

SAFIAN: Some moviegoers and some folks in Hollywood kind of lament these sorts of deals, that they, like, hurt the movie theater business. Do you personally go to movies in the theater? Are you not quite so romantic about that pastime?

CAMPBELL: I love going to the movies. It’s such an experience to see a big film in a big movie theater and, you know, streaming at its heart was this sort of consumer-first, give people choice and flexibility, and so for people like me who maybe can’t run out to the movie theater as often as I’d like, it’s really nice to be able to watch on the couch with my kids or after they go to bed. Again, it’s ideally additive to the experience for consumers.

Comparing streaming bundles with the cable bundle

SAFIAN: The flexibility and sort of opportunity with streaming to get what you want when you want it, you know, it’s kind of replacing the cable bundle. There’s this conversation going on now that with so many streamers and costs going up, it’s like a streaming bundle is the same thing as a cable bundle. The delivery system is just a little different. Like what’s really changed? 

CAMPBELL: The comparison makes a ton of sense, and in a way, we are starting to see the great re-bundling. At the same time, consumers still are the ones who are making the choice of what to bundle, and we’ll see how that evolves over time. But if you look at the market right now, the consumer still gets to decide, ‘do I want this service or this service?, or I can get a nice price for these two services if I go with this bundle.’ So I expect we’ll continue to see these types of bundles. But it also speaks to the importance of having a mix of content that can stand on its own. 

SAFIAN: I hear what Kelly’s saying here – that streamers offer new choice and personalization for consumers, and it’s true. But you have to wonder, as streaming platforms continue to expand, and possibly even merge, will the level of choice and specificity erode? After the break, Kelly shares Peacock’s NFL strategy, insider details about NBC’s recent deal to broadcast the NBA, and more. Stay with us. 

[AD BREAK]

Before the break, Peacock’s President, Kelly Campbell, shared how the platform plans to sustain their momentum following a buzzy summer of Olympic glory and Love Island drama. Now, Kelly takes us inside the deal between NBC and the NBA, how Peacock plans to capture Gen Z viewers, and her vision for the future of streaming. Let’s get back to it. 

Inside Peacock’s exclusive streaming of NFL games

SAFIAN: Peacock streamed its first NFL post season game last season — Chiefs/Dolphins. Some fans were annoyed to have to pay, but huge numbers signed up for Peacock and reportedly the most live streamed event in history. September 6th, you have an opening weekend NFL game exclusive on Peacock — Packers/Eagles from Brazil.

Are there any things that you’re going to do differently than last year’s exclusive game? Or do you feel like, ‘we got the formula. We know how that works?’ 

CAMPBELL: I will say Peacock was uniquely suited to be the first streamer to have a playoff game. And that’s because we built this sort of capability for live content in addition to on demand content from day one. And there are a lot of things that sort of have been a core part of Peacock’s evolution initial plan that have come to really pay off now when you look at sort of where streaming is going. And that includes that investment in live, that investment in sports, as well as things like the investment in the advertising platform.

But back to sports, we will take the learnings from the exclusive game. But I will say that game was a success by all metrics any way we look at it. So If we are able to, you know, replicate the success of that game, I think we will all be happy. And you mentioned consumers and maybe some discontent at needing to sign up for Peacock to watch the game, but that’s kind of the sort of typical consumers don’t love change and having to do something differently. You know, comparisons have been made to when NFL games first appeared on cable. And now it’s just understood that that’s a very normal place to watch an NFL game and I think as we see the NFL continuing to expand what their distribution looks like, we see consumers starting to sort of warm up to the idea. 

But we’re in daily planning mode. I mean, during, you know, leading up to the Olympics, leading up to the January playoff game, you get into a mode where you’re literally having daily syncs, you’re running rehearsals. That’s true for the NFL exclusive game right now. The teams are all in on making sure that we’re ready for that, that big day to stay in front of it.

Kelly Campbell on bringing the NBA back to NBC

SAFIAN: I mean, well listen, live sports rights, like they’re expensive. I mean, the costs keep going up and up. How does Peacock play into NBC’s thinking on what deals are worth making. Like the NBA deal is huge. Do you get involved in those discussions?

CAMPBELL: Of course. Like most things, there’s a lot of internal discussion and debate and we work together to make the decisions, you know the NBA this was a once in a decade opportunity we’re super excited about bringing the NBA both back to NBC, which has this, like, great nostalgia to it, you know, especially with John Tesh’s iconic Round Ball Rock theme music. So, you know, there’s an opportunity to lean into that, which fans love, but there’s also an opportunity to challenge ourselves to say, ‘what is the best way to watch the NBA that you can only do in a streaming environment?’ And ‘what does that look like on Peacock?’ So I will tell you, we are like T-14 months until we launched the NBA on Peacock, and we’re already working closely with our teams here at Peacock, with our NBC sports team and with the NBA to say, what is best in class? Like, how do we reinvent what’s possible? 

SAFIAN: The sports streaming combo that ESPN and Fox and Warner are talking about, Fubo went after them to slow the deal down. And for now it’s been blocked by an injunction. Do you look at this tie up as a similar sort of threat for you guys? When you look at those three players potentially coming together?

CAMPBELL: You know, I think we’re in wait and see mode. You know, it’s gonna be very interesting to see how this plays out.

How Peacock adjusts in real time

SAFIAN: Do you have a vision for what the future of entertainment looks like and the future of streaming? Like it is so uncertain and you’ve talked about how you have to adapt and how you have to experiment and kind of see what happens. Is there a clear place that you’re trying to move towards, or do you just have to, like, adjust and adapt continually?

CAMPBELL: I mean, it’s a little bit of both. You know, if you think about it, there will be a handful of players who emerge as the must, must have streaming services. We believe that Peacock is absolutely positioned to be one of those. At the same time, it’s a growth business in a growth space, and things happen very quickly. We have to move very quickly. I mean, you know, even just using the Olympics as like an example, we had multiple daily meetings throughout the Olympics — one of which was at midnight Paris time. So it was like regardless of where you were, you made these meetings happen and we used those meetings to make real time decisions. So fans wanted to see more Snoop — ‘Where can I find all the Snoop coverage?’ So we were able to pull together all of the coverage that Snoop did, put it into a collection, and make it available for the consumer to just click on the highlights from Snoop and watch that. 

It’s like an example of, if you zoom all the way out now to Peacock, of the sort of cadence that we have to have internally, because we do have to move fast. We have to make fast decisions. And so I think that’s a bit of a superpower for Peacock is just, we have a leadership team that is comprised of people who are such specialists in what they do, but that come together every day focused on these Peacock outcomes. And there’s a cadence or a pace that is just lightning fast. And we’ve now been in it long enough together that we’ve sort of found that groove and I think we are starting to see real potential about what’s possible.

Meeting younger audiences where they are

SAFIAN: How much do you think about or worry about like next generation viewers, like Gen Z and even younger, the numbers seem to indicate that they spend a lot more time, not just on YouTube, but consuming video content on other platforms, right? And not thinking about linear TV and not even thinking about streaming quite the same way. How do you think about reaching them? Or do you not really worry about that? And you sort of figure at a certain point, they’ll come?

CAMPBELL: I think it’s on us to be students of our consumer. So we have to understand younger audiences and we have to meet them where they’re going. And that means it’s incumbent upon us to innovate in the way that we think about the experience and in the way that we think about the content. So, very active dialogue right now just around, you know, what does it look like? We’re sort of in the middle of, but we’ve completed a phase of a body of work that we call The Future Consumer to really dig in and understand and sort of pull out the insights that can help us shape what the experience might feel like and look like for a younger consumer. 

Even something like the AI Al Michaels Daily Recap, you know, when you get consumers who are strapped for time, and we know that, you know, there’s a combination of looking at screens and also listening to content, something like that daily recap. It’s personalized, you know, there’s an expectation of personalization from a younger consumer. So, you know, that’s just an example of us saying, like, ‘what can we do that’s different, that might spark with consumers and or give us really interesting learnings.’ Having Alex Cooper come and cover the Olympics is another example of that. Her audience is a bit younger than perhaps your typical audience, and we saw great response from younger audiences when it comes to that type of content.

What’s at stake for Peacock right now?

SAFIAN: I mean, Al Michaels doesn’t necessarily have a following among younger folks. They may not know him as much, but Alex Cooper, other folks, you know, could be your conduit. What’s at stake for Peacock right now?

CAMPBELL: I think we’re at a pivotal moment for Peacock where we’re breaking through in culture. We talked about Love Island. We talked about The Olympics. We talked about these big moments we have coming up for the NFL, and we need to continue the momentum of bringing new people in. Right now, we need to win these consumers over. We need them to open the Peacock app, not because of a specific event or title, but because of belief that there’s so much more there. And I think we’re on the cusp of doing just that.

SAFIAN: Well, Kelly, this has been great. Thank you so much for taking the time. I really appreciate it.

CAMPBELL: It’s been fun and I’m glad I got to know you and your podcast. I will be an avid listener from here on out.

SAFIAN: What struck me most in my conversation with Kelly is how broadly she’s spreading her bets. Peacock is really a start-up, only a few years old, but it’s not pursuing a start-up-like strategy. It’s not trying to own a niche, and use that as a beachhead to build from. With its big-media parentage, from NBC, and it’s big media budgets, it has big media aspirations, now, today, immediately. Even if you don’t opt for a streaming bundle as a consumer, each of the streamers is itself trying to become a bundle: to offer all things, for all of us. The race is on. The big question isn’t just which platform will win the gold, it’s whether viewers will be thrilled by the competition, or start to tune out. I’m Bob Safian, thanks for listening.